D-Day - the Normandy landings

[skipper734]

Alistair MacLean's first book, and best. HMS Ulysses is a cracking read, for the atmosphere of the Arctic Convoys.

 

[portlock seagull]

I'm from generation x; I'm not a baby boomer; nor from the 'greatest generation'. But having grown up in the shadow of the latter and talked to many of them, you soon learn why they're called that. They just seemed to have got on with things - regardless. Not just the front line troops who were combatants but the many many more who equally played a part in the war effort and sacrificed so much for our freedom. I'm not viewing it all through rose-tinted glasses, not everyone was a hero. I've read and watched vast amounts of literature and media about WW2 during my lifetime, spoken to veterans, listened to POWs, visited sites with those that were there at the time hearing their harrowing stories. And some funny ones too. I've even guided groups around the Normandy beaches and cemeteries themselves. Heck my back door key ring is a Spandau shell that was given to me by a Normandy farmer who took it from the many still lodged in the walls of barns and other buildings from all those years ago as the battles raged! And I still find it incredible to think that on the first day alone there were 10,000 allied casualties and by the end of August there were 2 million men fighting each other in ferocious confused close quarter combat, in an area similar in size and topography to Sussex, with appalling casualty rates on a par with the Russian front. It's a wonder anyone came out of the Battle for Normandy alive and managed to resume a normal life afterwards. And yet still there are survivors amongst us. If there are any young teenage seagulls reading this thread I encourage you to speak to those old folk you might know of in your road, village or town before it's too late as it almost is. Because believe me, if you do, you'll thank me one day when the greatest generation have finally departed into the history books. They have incredible life stories to tell that fire your imagination even amongst the least empathetic.

I know of a unique and astonishing D-Day veteran story that's not been told amongst the many thousands that have and are equally so. But it's not mine to tell so I asked my friend to contact the BBC last week to tell it having first heard it many years ago. He was so touched that I remembered it that he said he would thought I haven't heard if he has or whether the Beeb have taken an interest. I honestly think it's a One-Show type story that's one of a kind. I'll tell it tomorrow regardless because it's quite incredible and a remarkable 'human' story with a happy ending when so many weren't.

70 years ago tonight as we add to this thread, southern England which had been crammed to the gunnels with troops and equipment for many months was slowly empting as thousands of men departed in boats and aircraft to go over to France. The next morning it was eerily silent, you may have grandparents who can testify to this as children in Sussex at the time. The biggest amphibious operation in history was underway, the like we'll never see again. God bless 'em all. Lest we forget.

"I wonder why you had to die without the chance to say goodbye"
Eileen and family,
(On the gravestone of Pvt A.Richards, Hampshire Regt, Normandy).

 

[Working class pride]

The very brave men on both sides who fought at Normandy and all over in both wars is not in doubt. The history of both wars is at times lost in populist press however. I read today that D Day was the "turning point of the war". It wasn't, the war against Germany was won by Stalin (another nasty dictator). If there was a "turning point" then that was Stalingrad but even that is too simplistic as there is an argument that Hitler and Napoleon lost against Russia for the same reason - the vast distance of Russia and weather. What D-Day achieved was stopping Russia taking all of Germany and maybe more. The war against Japan is also little known in the West. Japan had actually been at war with and occupied large areas of China long before the British or Americans were involved. The Americans then ended that conflict with its military logitical might and ironically ended the British Empire as well.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Caen an anvil of terror,Falaise pocket
regards
DR

 

[Mutts Nuts]

70 years ago tomorrow. Some of the statistics for the invasion are staggering:

• 156,000 troops crossed over on 6th June 1944
• Troops from United Kingdom, Canada, US, Australia, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, France, Greece, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway and Poland.
• 11,590 aircraft were available to support the landings. On D-Day, 14,674 sorties flew and 127 were lost.
• 5 days later 326,547 troops, 54,186 vehicles and 104,428 tons of supplies had been landed on the beaches.
• 12,000 men and over 2,000 aircraft were lost in the two months prior to June 1944 in the struggle to get things ready for D-Day.
• 24 allied warships sunk
• 425,000 German and Allied troops killed or MIA
• Between 15 and 20,000 French civilians killed

Incredible that this happened within living memory.

Poppy is already on jacket for work tomorrow, we must not forget what they gave up for us

 

[BBassic]

I've got that book and haven't read it yet but it seemed like about 350 pages about the Americans and a hundred about the British. Is that a fair reflection or is it a bit more balanced?

I've found to be quite balanced really. There is an admittedly American slant to some of it but, as historical record, that's fair enough; they did come in and make a massive difference to the outcome of the conflict. Them and the Russians.

 

[forrest]

My great grandfather although not a combat soldier on D-Day as such had the nerve wrecking job of driving fuel tankers and ammo supply trucks to the front line as we advanced. He told me it wasn't unusual to drive a tanker with a trailer behind it full of ammo or vice versa. He never drove another lorry after the war finished either.

 

[Norman Potting]

Fortunately none of my family, althought involved to a greater or lesser degree in both World Wars, were lost. Both Grandfather and his dad served in WWI, both had close shaves but lived to tell tale. My dad was called up toward the end of the War but too late to be involved in anything more harrowing than being posted to the Orkneys for a while!

The only "first hand" reminiscence was from an Uncle - a dour Scotsman who lived up to the stereotype, naturally he was nicknamed Jock! I believe he was billetted near my aunt's home village during the war (she was a little "highly strung" in the vernacular of the day, "special needs" in today's terms) and somehow ended up marrying her.

For some reason I was visiting them around the D-Day 40th Anniversary and asked him if he had any reminiscences. Sadly Jock by this time was rather considered an object of derision and the rest of his family present took the view that "..he would start off again about the war.." However, I had always found him an interesting conversationalist. He told me that he and his comrades were billeted in a warehouse somewhere and were destined to land on D-Day +1. The evening before embarcation he got into a card school and managed to win a substantial amount. So convinced was he that he would never return from Normandy that he spent all the money won on fags and chocolate and shared them out - very much against the grain for him. Sadly I never troubled to find out "what happened next" but I wish I had.

 

[LA1972]

Got back from Normandy on Monday night, 6 of us cycled all the beaches starting at Merville Battery and finishing in Cherbourg. Went a week early as all hotels were full this weekend but it was still very busy. Amazing trip spread over 4 days.

 

[BUTTERBALL]

Lest we forget

 

[Bold Seagull]

This is an amazing little read about D-Day. Rather than an historical account, it is merely a collection of soldier letters, debriefs, interviews and conversations. It's brilliantly put together and a really engaging account from the men that were there. The front cover photo I found chilling, if ever a photo told a thousand words it was this one.

Forgotten Voices of D-Day

 

[brighton bluenose]

BBC and ITV(Merdian) both covered this well tonight.

The bravery of paratroopers in gliders, drifting over enemy territory, in canvas and softwood planes, was immense. Before taking off from now-gone airfields in Dorset and elsewhere, all were given the chance to pullout, but none did.

Also, the emotional appreciation of the French civilians was still there to see, having been liberated from 4 years of tyranny by an evil regime with its murderous henchmen.

Weeks like I think are great at putting things in perspective - the usual bickering about issues such as car drivers vs cyclists, the Albion's next coaching team, etc, all seem less important!

The French appreciation of their liberation is of course tempered by the fact that Allied carpet bombing killed 10,000+ French civilians in Normandy in the days immediately prior to D-Day - a bombing campaign that ultimately failed to achieve its objectives and which the historian Antony Beevor suggested was 'practically a war crime'!!

 

[jakarta]

The French appreciation of their liberation is of course tempered by the fact that Allied carpet bombing killed 10,000+ French civilians in Normandy in the days immediately prior to D-Day - a bombing campaign that ultimately failed to achieve its objectives and which the historian Antony Beevor suggested was 'practically a war crime'!!

Perhaps they shouldn't have rolled over in May 1940?

 

[portlock seagull]

Perhaps they shouldn't have rolled over in May 1940?

Not really an appropriate comment for the general tone of this thread, if not a little too simplistic.

 

[Bry Nylon]

I don't knowingly have any direct connection to any soldiers, sailors or airmen that participated in D-day.

But, by God they were made of different stuff. I salute them all and hope the life I live and enjoy today, in some small way, makes their sacrifice worthwhile.

 

[RowleyBirkinQ.C(deceased)]

My grandad, a Canadian from North shore New Brunswick regiment, was on Juno beach alongside the Brits. He went through living hell that day. He later pushed through France, Belgium and took part in the battle of the Scheldt estuary in Holland.
When I watch those opening 20 minutes of saving Private Ryan, it's pretty much All the things he told me about June the 6th 1944.
Amazing man and was pretty much my dad as I grew up. I'm so proud of what he and all his brothers in arms did for us all.

Pic of my grandad

 

[Bry Nylon]

My grandad, a Canadian from North shore New Brunswick regiment, was on Juno beach alongside the Brits. He went through living hell that day. He later pushed through France, Belgium and took part in the battle of the Scheldt estuary in Holland.
When I watch those opening 20 minutes of saving Private Ryan, it's pretty much All the things he told me about June the 6th 1944.
Amazing man and was pretty much my dad as I grew up. I'm so proud of what he and all his brothers in arms did for us all.

Pic of my grandad

Poignant story. You must be very proud. Heartfelt thanks to your grandad, Rowley.

 

[RowleyBirkinQ.C(deceased)]

Poignant story. You must be very proud. Heartfelt thanks to your grandad, Rowley.

I am, and thank you. What's nice is when he passed away 12 years ago he left me all his war mementos. His medals. his papers, beret and lapel badge. I've even got a German 10 Reichmark banknote that he found on the floor of a farmhouse in Belgium. I want to pass these things on to my kids and tell them his story as they grow up so their bravery lives on for generations to come

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Perhaps they shouldn't have rolled over in May 1940?

They didn't rollover and had spent considerable time building the Maginot Line.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Perhaps they shouldn't have rolled over in May 1940?

You should visit France and see the war memorials in every village from the First World war. There were thousands upon thousands that were lost. The German invasion was just 20 years later, so it's unsurprising that they felt it was easier to accept Nazi rule. They had see the total devastation that had been wreaked in other countries before them.
Then read about the French resistance and the help they gave to Jewish people, and escaping prisoners of war.
As someone else has said, it's far to simplistic to say they rolled over.