Cyclists in the road when there is a cycle lane

[British Bulldog]

122 cyclist killed on British roads last year, a 5 year high. Not good enough.

It's sad that so many cyclist's were killed, But to build a correct picture of where the blame lies you also need to know how many cyclist's died because of their own actions and how many were down to the actions of others.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I guess my reasoning is this:
- cars should use the roadway
- pedestrians should use the pavements if there is one
- cyclists should use the cycle path if there is one

If cyclists insist on using the roadway when there is a cycle path, then I guess it's equally OK for cars to drive on the cycle path?

Cyclists can't have it both ways, in my opinion. If they want/demand cycle paths, then frigging cycle on them.

I think you're trying to be funny in a 'grumpy old man' style. It's kind of working I guess but you will be better off using a different topic as this has been done to death before.

 

[teaboy]

If there's one thing that annoys me (actually there are thousands of things that annoy me of which this is but one!), it is cyclists who insist in using the road when there is a perfectly good cycle path.

The cycle path is for cyclists (hence the name) so fricking use it when it's there and stop snarling up the traffic for us car drivers.

I usually give such morons a blast on my horn as I sail past and get a one or two finger salute in response. At least I'm getting my message across.

I guess my reasoning is this:
- cars should use the roadway
- pedestrians should use the pavements if there is one
- cyclists should use the cycle path if there is one

If cyclists insist on using the roadway when there is a cycle path, then I guess it's equally OK for cars to drive on the cycle path?

Cyclists can't have it both ways, in my opinion. If they want/demand cycle paths, then frigging cycle on them.

Thankfully your opinion isn't the law, or even the Highway Code. Why aren't you driving on a bloody motorway anyway - those are for motor vehicles. All other roads are for everyone to use, paid for by everyone.

 

[teaboy]

I rarely cycle.

Why not? Genuine question.

 

[wellquickwoody]

122 cyclist killed on British roads last year, a 5 year high. Not good enough.

Too bloody right it isn't, lets aim for 150 this year!

And before anyone gets tooooooo upset, I am a cyclist AND a car driver AND a motorcyclist to boot.

 

[Bold Seagull]

It's sad that so many cyclist's were killed, But to build a correct picture of where the blame lies you also need to know how many cyclist's died because of their own actions and how many were down to the actions of others.

Why does it matter where the blame lies!? It just tells you that safety can be improved doesn't it? Some will have died with no other vehicles involved, some lorries, some cars, but it is still a figure that can be reduced with safer roads, technology for lorries such as blind spot cameras being mandatory etc.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3313260.ece

 

[Nibble]

Pedestrians can walk on the road, pavement and cyclepath.
A cycle path is part of the street that cycles are permitted on but do not have exclusive use of
The road is part of the street that cars are permitted on but not for the exclusive use of cars.

 

[Nibble]

Why not? Genuine question.

I enjoy going out on my bike on a nice day. prefer walking.

 

[British Bulldog]

Why does it matter where the blame lies!? It just tells you that safety can be improved doesn't it? Some will have died with no other vehicles involved, some lorries, some cars, but it is still a figure that can be reduced with safer roads, technology for lorries such as blind spot cameras being mandatory etc.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3313260.ece

Because once you build up a picture of where most of the blame lies for deaths and injuries to cyclists then it gives you the more important areas to tackle first in improving safety, If for arguments sake most of the fault was with the cyclists themselves then maybe it's time to start looking at changing some of the laws on cycling to make it safer for them. That's just my take on it anyway.

 

[sten_super]

Because once you build up a picture of where most of the blame lies for deaths and injuries to cyclists then it gives you the more important areas to tackle first in improving safety, If for arguments sake most of the fault was with the cyclists themselves then maybe it's time to start looking at changing some of the laws on cycling to make it safer for them. That's just my take on it anyway.

http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/adviceandinformation/cycling/facts-figures.aspx

In collisions involving a bicycle and another vehicle, the most common key contributory factor recorded by the police is ‘failed to look properly’ by either the driver or rider, especially at junctions. ‘Failed to look properly’ was attributed to the car driver in 57% of serious collisions and to the cyclist in 43% of serious collisions at junctions.

Other common contributory factors attributed to drivers are ‘poor turn/manoeuvre’ (in 17% of serious accidents involving a cyclist) and ‘careless, reckless, in a hurry (17%). Cyclists are more likely to suffer serious injuries when a driver is judged to be ‘impaired by alcohol’, exceeding the speed limit’ or ‘travelling too fast for the conditions’.

The second most common contributory factor attributed to cyclists was ‘cyclist entering the road from the pavement’ (including when a cyclist crosses the road at a pedestrian crossing), which was recorded in about 20% serious collisions (and over one third of serious collisions involving child cyclists).

The most common vehicle involved in collisions with cyclists is a car or taxi, with the rider usually being hit by the front of the vehicle. In a quarter of fatal cyclist accidents, the front of the vehicle hit the rear of the bicycle.

However, heavy goods vehicles (HGVs) present a particular danger for cyclists, especially in London where around 20% of cyclist fatalities occur involve an HGV. These often occur when an HGV is turning left at a junction’. About one quarter of accidents resulting in serious injury to a cyclist involved an HGV, bus or coach ‘passing too close’ to the rider.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Because once you build up a picture of where most of the blame lies for deaths and injuries to cyclists then it gives you the more important areas to tackle first in improving safety, If for arguments sake most of the fault was with the cyclists themselves then maybe it's time to start looking at changing some of the laws on cycling to make it safer for them. That's just my take on it anyway.

The research is there if you want to look it at (thank you Sten!). There are many studies and statistics to explore. There is a debate in the Commons at the start of September. We have a poor record on cycle safety compared to other nations who undertake many more cycle journey's per person than us. More people that cycle, the more people that are healthy, less vehicle congestion on the roads. It's a no brainer.

 

[Stat Brother]

Stat Brother complaining of the starting of boring threads.

Nah, I'm not that blinkered, I do have some self awareness.

Stat Brother complaining about repetitive threads, would be nearer the mark.

 

[teaboy]

Because once you build up a picture of where most of the blame lies for deaths and injuries to cyclists then it gives you the more important areas to tackle first in improving safety, If for arguments sake most of the fault was with the cyclists themselves then maybe it's time to start looking at changing some of the laws on cycling to make it safer for them. That's just my take on it anyway.

It's not about changing the laws on cycling, no matter who is at fault. It's about reducing the chances of such incidents occurring, and the severity of any such incident. Whoever is at fault it will ALWAYS be the cyclist that comes off worse than the motorist. There's some very good data in the following links - the first one in for London since Boris Johnson became mayor, the 2nd is nationwide for a longer period of time.

https://www.google.com/fusiontables...FvFq6ydJQEjwo_YZHocJtfk9UuERkhZ0Q4o#rows:id=1
http://icycleliverpool.co.uk/2013/05/29/fatalities-by-year-and-vehicle-type/

This covers the 'who is to blame' issue:
http://fullfact.org/factchecks/road...lame_killed_seriously_injured_motorists-27340

The major change that needs to happen is to attitude to road users (as this thread demonstrates) - the roads are for EVERYONE, so give other users the space and time they need. By dangerously overtaking you might save yourself 10 seconds, but spend the same 10 seconds waiting at the next traffic lights. And anyway, why is a 10-second saving of your time worth the risk to anyone else's life?

 

[Pantani]

While I am on cyclists side, they must realise that the road is a very dangerous place. It is deadly in a heavily protected car, it is especially deadly in spandex on a carbon fibre frame next o lethal cars going at 30-70mph. The rules of probablility dictate some of you will get killed, quite horribly. As long as you can accept those probabilities then take your chances as long as you understand you may die horrifically.

This is actually a good point in a way. All cyclists know the risks we take everyday by riding on the roads. The fact that the vast majority of us would rather ride in the road than in a cycle lane will tell you all you need to know about the poor upkeep and design of most cycle lanes in this country.

 

[Birdie Boy]

http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/adviceandinformation/cycling/facts-figures.aspx

In collisions involving a bicycle and another vehicle, the most common key contributory factor recorded by the police is ‘failed to look properly’ by either the driver or rider, especially at junctions. ‘Failed to look properly’ was attributed to the car driver in 57% of serious collisions and to the cyclist in 43% of serious collisions at junctions.

This happened to me this morning, riding down along side Southwick Green, fairly narrow as cars parked so riding in the middle of the road, no cars behind me and I was doing around 22-23mph. I saw a car ahead waiting to turn right across me whilst another car was pulling out of the side road. The car pulling out was not a problem. I fully expected the car waiting to see me, it should have been obvious, just as I got close to him he decides to turn, I slam on my breaks skidded to a halt practically on top of the car! He said he didn't see me!

I know some cyclists aren't great but neither are some drivers.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

While I am on cyclists side, they must realise that the road is a very dangerous place. It is deadly in a heavily protected car, it is especially deadly in spandex on a carbon fibre frame next o lethal cars going at 30-70mph. The rules of probablility dictate some of you will get killed, quite horribly. As long as you can accept those probabilities then take your chances as long as you understand you may die horrifically.

I do NOT wear spandex. It's lycra. I refuse to accept that the two are in any way connected.

Most cyclists, and I am one, are intensely aware of the dangers on the open road. We choose to avoid the main roads wherever possible and explore the off-the-beaten-track lanes that are well kept secrets from most people. You really get to discover what a beautiful country we live in. When the road gets busy, we cycle single file, and defensively.

I use cycle lanes - but not always. My commute takes me from Ovingdean, along the cliffs and the sea-front and nearly into Portslade. Over the cliffs, opposite Roedean I will ALWAYS use the cycle lane. It's well tarmaced and you rarely encounter pedestrians. Some cyclists ride on the road here, and I cannot understand why they would - along a fast moving dual carriageway - suicide.

Then I use the cycle lane up to the Brighton Wheel - but from there I may go onto the road - especially at this time of year. It's safer, I don't want to be crashing into pedestrians who tend to ignore the fact that part of the pavement is designated a cycle path (and yes, I know they are allowed to walk in it...)

Then back into the cycle lane further up, usually around the Peace Statue.

If any driver gets annoyed that I share the road with them then they need to chill a bit. The delay from being behind a bike is always minimal, and I cycle with courtesy. I'd expect the same from other road users.

 

[Stat Brother]

I do NOT wear spandex. It's lycra. I refuse to accept that the two are in any way connected.

Most cyclists, and I am one, are intensely aware of the dangers on the open road. We choose to avoid the main roads wherever possible and explore the off-the-beaten-track lanes that are well kept secrets from most people. You really get to discover what a beautiful country we live in. When the road gets busy, we cycle single file, and defensively.

I use cycle lanes - but not always. My commute takes me from Ovingdean, along the cliffs and the sea-front and nearly into Portslade. Over the cliffs, opposite Roedean I will ALWAYS use the cycle lane. It's well tarmaced and you rarely encounter pedestrians. Some cyclists ride on the road here, and I cannot understand why they would - along a fast moving dual carriageway - suicide.

Then I use the cycle lane up to the Brighton Wheel - but from there I may go onto the road - especially at this time of year. It's safer, I don't want to be crashing into pedestrians who tend to ignore the fact that part of the pavement is designated a cycle path (and yes, I know they are allowed to walk in it...)

Then back into the cycle lane further up, usually around the Peace Statue.

If any driver gets annoyed that I share the road with them then they need to chill a bit. The delay from being behind a bike is always minimal, and I cycle with courtesy. I'd expect the same from other road users.

For the purposes of this debate I always say 'some cyclists...'

There are so many morons on the road, not taking into account costly one off mistakes, before you even take the 'chip on the shoulder' brigade, from both camps.
It's a wonder many many more people aren't killed to death.

 

[Perry's Tracksuit Bottoms]

LA county metropolitan ad campaign hits the nail on the head...

 

[Kazenga <3]

Cyclists undertaking is what pisses me off.

Nearly knocked some spandex goon off of his bike the other week. I braked and indicated left to turn from a major road into a minor and as I started the turn this moron decided he was going to try and do me on the inside and just narrowly avoided a collision with the left side of my bumper as I swung round.

Also its very frustrating when you have had to stack up in a queue of cars for a couple of minutes going at 20mph to get past a cyclist, only for them to slide past everyone again at the traffic lights, gaining themselves about 30 yards, but meaning everybody now has to slow down and concentrate to overtake them again.

Think I would have a lot more respect for cyclists if they didn't go out in full spandex kits like they are part of the tour. Seeing some tw@t fully clad in team sky gear, helmet and bike included would be like me going for a kick about with my mates down the park in complete Albion kit and shinnies.

 

[teaboy]

Cyclists undertaking is what pisses me off.

Nearly knocked some spandex goon off of his bike the other week. I braked and indicated left to turn from a major road into a minor and as I started the turn this moron decided he was going to try and do me on the inside and just narrowly avoided a collision with the left side of my bumper as I swung round.

Also its very frustrating when you have had to stack up in a queue of cars for a couple of minutes going at 20mph to get past a cyclist, only for them to slide past everyone again at the traffic lights, gaining themselves about 30 yards, but meaning everybody now has to slow down and concentrate to overtake them again.

Think I would have a lot more respect for cyclists if they didn't go out in full spandex kits like they are part of the tour. Seeing some tw@t fully clad in team sky gear, helmet and bike included would be like me going for a kick about with my mates down the park in complete Albion kit and shinnies.

Surely if they're catching you when you're stuck in traffic it means the overtaking manoeuvre is pointless? Any why are you annoyed by other people's clothing choice? Maybe you need to chill out a bit...