Cyclist Vs Car (again!)

[Insel affe]

It depends on your definition of accident. I would say that an accident is an incident where no action could have been taken by anyone involved to avoid it. I think there are a very small number of genuine accidents on the road, and this is clearly not one. The driver of the car, whether wilfully or through a complete lack of attention Which is then an accident surely, has hit and injured another road user, and should be held responsible for that.

I honestly don't understand your acceptance of this kind of 'accident' - are you genuinely happy where did I say I was happy ? that is just a poor accusing me of being happy actually it is lazy and patheticto accept the 1,775 deaths and 22,807 serious injuries (2014 figures) on the road in a year as some kind of 'necessary evil' to allow motorised transport, and think that nothing should be done to improve driver behavior Again where did I say or imply I think nothing should be done, again pathetic, why do some people wish to make another seem like a monster, just because I said its an accident.... they happen the government, schools and local councils all make us aware of hazards on and around roads. and attempt to reduce them?

Ok.

 

[Paul Reids Sock]

Christ - that is ridiculous.

I hate the text at the end though - we need to stop this ridiculous car v bike bollocks and actually find a proper solution, whether that is better cycle lanes or whatever but the whole thing is ridiculous. A lot of cyclists ride like idiots, a lot of car drivers drive like idiots, that is a pretty dangerous cocktail

 

[Insel affe]

Even those that caused it!?

Oh please, this is what makes this 45 year old more and more depressed about life and other people, You know what someone can cause an accident because they sneezed or had twinge or even worse....

Life is not so cut & dried...

 

[sten_super]

Ok.

Not really, because you don't answer any of my points. Let me put it another way - in what scenario do you think that a driver should be held responsible for his actions behind the wheels of a car? And what would you do about it in that situation?

I fundamentally believe that driving a multi-ton vehicle on streets alongside pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists, etc. brings substantial responsibility upon a driver. I believe that they should exercise extreme caution, and should not allow themselves to become distracted in any way - and if they do, they should face the consequences of that inaction. I would advocate personal responsibility amongst all vehicle users - and the bigger the vehicle, the bigger the responsibility.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Oh please, this is what makes this 45 year old more and more depressed about life and other people, You know what someone can cause an accident because they sneezed or had twinge or even worse....

Life is not so cut & dried...

Oh do behave, most accidents are excessive speed and not paying due care and attention i.e. on a mobile, looking at their radio, not being careful enough, going to fast for the sitution. There are some complete muppets on the road, driving around like they're in Le Mans and every 10 secs they are held up increases their rage and indignation at anyone with the audacity to be holding them up. That is most is most depressing about life and other people, a lack of just relaxing a bit, sharing the road, and chilling the **** out.

 

[Hamilton]

Oh please, this is what makes this 45 year old more and more depressed about life and other people, You know what someone can cause an accident because they sneezed or had twinge or even worse....

Life is not so cut & dried...

But in this case, I'm sure you'd agree, if it were a genuine accident then you would expect the driver to stop.

 

[Insel affe]

Not really, because you don't answer any of my points. Let me put it another way - in what scenario do you think that a driver should be held responsible for his actions behind the wheels of a car? And what would you do about it in that situation?

I fundamentally believe that driving a multi-ton vehicle on streets alongside pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists, etc. brings substantial responsibility upon a driver. I believe that they should exercise extreme caution, and should not allow themselves to become distracted in any way - and if they do, they should face the consequences of that inaction.

Correct everyone is responsible for their actions, as proved with the bin lorry driver who crashed in Scotland killing people.
There are numerous cases in London and other places of cyclists and motorbike riders being killed unfortunately by undertaking, those drivers are also affected because there was nothing they could have done or even seen them. It works both ways.

Everyone should be careful on the roads, no one person more than another that way we all make the roads safer for everyone. What I take exception too is the self righteous text at the end and actually posting this up in the first place. It was an accident as I have said they happen.

 

[Insel affe]

But in this case, I'm sure you'd agree, if it were a genuine accident then you would expect the driver to stop.

you would expect the driver to stop yes. It was still an accident,with a fail to stop for one reason or another which is not acceptable. Other than that it was attempted murder.

 

[dazzer6666]

Christ - that is ridiculous.

I hate the text at the end though - we need to stop this ridiculous car v bike bollocks and actually find a proper solution, whether that is better cycle lanes or whatever but the whole thing is ridiculous. A lot of cyclists ride like idiots, a lot of car drivers drive like idiots, that is a pretty dangerous cocktail

This, this and this again. This isn't 'bike v car' - it's dickhead v other road user. The driver was at fault, whether deliberate or not. Equally, there are hordes of cyclists that ride like dickheads as well. Reginald's one-sided sanctimonious drivel at the end doesn't help either.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

Not really, because you don't answer any of my points. Let me put it another way - in what scenario do you think that a driver should be held responsible for his actions behind the wheels of a car? And what would you do about it in that situation?

I fundamentally believe that driving a multi-ton vehicle on streets alongside pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists, etc. brings substantial responsibility upon a driver. I believe that they should exercise extreme caution, and should not allow themselves to become distracted in any way - and if they do, they should face the consequences of that inaction. I would advocate personal responsibility amongst all vehicle users - and the bigger the vehicle, the bigger the responsibility.

The problem is most of us have learned to drive over the years with far fewer cyclists on the road so are having to adjust to the new situation which wont happen over night

 

[Bold Seagull]

This, this and this again. This isn't 'bike v car' - it's dickhead v other road user. The driver was at fault, whether deliberate or not. Equally, there are hordes of cyclists that ride like dickheads as well. Reginald's one-sided sanctimonious drivel at the end doesn't help either.

Its more than that. You feel incredibly vulnerable on a bike, the slightest mistake from a vehicle and you are aware you could be seriously injured. Therefore a driver taking a slight risk in overtaking, not giving you quite enough space is just a judgement call for them, not really putting them in any risk other than potentially damaging their paintwork - for the cyclist the result of that judgement can have devastating consequences.

Drivers get angry because they don't like being held up. Believe me I go on a club run early on a Sunday morning, mainly on country lanes and quiet roads, and if a driver is even held up for 10 secs behind us, they can become irate. It is incredible, as when they've past us we have cost them some 10 secs or so on their journey. I think cyclists get angry because you feel your own life, your safety is being put needlessly at risk by someones impatience. (I will say most drivers on a Sunday morning are fine, do wait politely, do give enough space when overtaking, and even give way to allow us through. Every Sunday though, someone will beep for no other reason than they don't like cyclists!).

Even if you took all the cyclists off the road, the road is an angry place, with angry people getting angry with each other. Bike v Car is just a focal point for vehicle v everything else including itself, in fact it is almost a distraction from the fact drivers have become less tolerant, less courteous, less polite.

 

[perseus]

The cyclist seems convinced it was a deliberate malicious act by the driver, but I'm not sure from the footage if that was actually deliberate. The driver was probably looking at his phone or something, it would be utterly bizarre to do that on purpose for no reason.

Not that it excuses it obviously, or makes any difference to the outcome.

Agree. Happened to me. I thought the bus driver was crashing into me deliberately, but he just didn't look, distracted.

 

[dazzer6666]

Its more than that. You feel incredibly vulnerable on a bike, the slightest mistake from a vehicle and you are aware you could be seriously injured. Therefore a driver taking a slight risk in overtaking, not giving you quite enough space is just a judgement call for them, not really putting them in any risk other than potentially damaging their paintwork - for the cyclist the result of that judgement can have devastating consequences.

Drivers get angry because they don't like being held up. Believe me I go on a club run early on a Sunday morning, mainly on country lanes and quiet roads, and if a driver is even held up for 10 secs behind us, they can become irate. It is incredible, as when they've past us we have cost them some 10 secs or so on their journey. I think cyclists get angry because you feel your own life, your safety is being put needlessly at risk by someones impatience. (I will say most drivers on a Sunday morning are fine, do wait politely, do give enough space when overtaking, and even give way to allow us through. Every Sunday though, someone will beep for no other reason than they don't like cyclists!).

Even if you took all the cyclists off the road, the road is an angry place, with angry people getting angry with each other. Bike v Car is just a focal point for vehicle v everything else including itself, in fact it is almost a distraction from the fact drivers have become less tolerant, less courteous, less polite.

I agree with most of that, but it's 'road users' that have become less tolerant, less courteous and less polite, including cyclists (I drive, cycle and run on the roads so would defend or pillory any group in particular). It wasn't a car driver that pedalled into me on a narrow pavement in Haywards Heath last week - it was a cyclist, in dark clothes, with no lights - who told me to 'f*** off out of the way'. Agree you're more vulnerable outside of a tin shell of course but groups of cyclists 2/3 abreast across the country lanes, not stopping at lights, diving onto kerbs to avoid queuing traffic etc don't help.

 

[Insel affe]

quick and swift justice.

[yt]KlLi0Hrx9QE[/yt]

 

[Bold Seagull]

I agree with most of that, but it's 'road users' that have become less tolerant, less courteous and less polite, including cyclists (I drive, cycle and run on the roads so would defend or pillory any group in particular). It wasn't a car driver that pedalled into me on a narrow pavement in Haywards Heath last week - it was a cyclist, in dark clothes, with no lights - who told me to 'f*** off out of the way'. Agree you're more vulnerable outside of a tin shell of course but groups of cyclists 2/3 abreast across the country lanes, not stopping at lights, diving onto kerbs to avoid queuing traffic etc don't help.

Yes, I see what you mean. I don't count them as 'cyclist' - just a yob who happens to have a bike....

 

[Ninja Elephant]

As a cyclist myself, I see some remarkable acts of stupidity on the road every day. As others have said, everyone is guilty of it. I see stupidity from bus drivers, from taxi drivers, from general motorists, emergency services, cyclists, pedestrians... we're all at it, myself included. It's very easy to lose focus for a moment and make the wrong instinctive decision. Someone nearly took me out turning left at a junction last night, he came around my outside and then turned into my path forcing me to brake with severe desperation. He stopped, rolled down the window and apologised, which I accepted and we moved on. Last week I wasn't really paying attention to my route and made a late decision to turn a corner, a pedestrian stepped out and I nearly hit him - I apologised immediately for my late decision to turn, which he couldn't have seen me signal, it was my error. Personally, I think that everyone should share the road and the responsibility for everyone staying alive - there are times when cars should let me go through, and other times when I could stop and them go to do the safest thing for everyone but in reality, not everybody has the same outlook on the road, all of the time.

Accidents will happen, the question is what people do when they've made them and whatever else you can say, the driver should have stopped in this case.

 

[surlyseagull]

But in this case, I'm sure you'd agree, if it were a genuine accident then you would expect the driver to stop.

Cant disagree with this and just about ends the topic in my opinion .

 

[1066familyman]

quick and swift justice.

[yt]KlLi0Hrx9QE[/yt]

I can't see any reason for posting that video on this thread, other than as a distraction tool because you've made yourself look a **** with your very first comment and tried unsuccessfully since to defend it.

 

[Insel affe]

I can't see any reason for posting that video on this thread, other than as a distraction tool because you've made yourself look a **** with your very first comment and tried unsuccessfully since to defend it.

I don't think I made myself look like a dick, at no point. I have said what happened was just another accident posted on you tube.. And there are good and bad on both sides.

It was an attempt to lighten the mood, I have an opinion and don't expect everyone to agree.

I certainly haven't called anyone a dick, or name calling. That's your opinion fine, you don't know me and gladly never will.

Have a nice evening.

 

[Gary1]

The biggest problem is people's attitude, for some reason many seem to forget that a road is a shared space and act as if it's their own private road that no-one else should be on and wobetide if they are. Driving has become very aggressive nowadays.