[Albion] crystal palace fans have lodged an official complaint against Sussex Police

[carlzeiss]

Posted in a different thread but relevant here:

View attachment 95994

Nothing is our fault .

 

[Hastings gull]

Easy to say that the CPST is trying to blame anyone, I read it as a complaint - one that on the face of it and also from personal experience contains many valid points.

What right do the police have to force an individual to board a train against their will, to stop them from going about their lawful business?

If you commit an offence or are reasonably suspected of doing so then fair enough but to force people, including the young and the old, to go on an hour and a half march against their will just doesn’t seem right - sure, anyone who has gone to away matches will probably have suffered similar to a greater or lesser degree but that doesn’t make it right nor acceptable.

With all the modern technology and resources available to police and other civil authorities it should be possible to target known trouble makers and to respond swiftly where individuals may cause trouble leaving the vast majority of law abiding supporters to enjoy the day.

I feel that as football fans we should be supporting many of the complaints raised.

So simple isn't it? This all sounds fine in theory, and yes you are right -in theory. I assume that you have never had to police violent mobs, sometimes hundreds strong, when booze and hatred combine to bring out the worst. Sometimes the measures needed to restore order are a case of the lesser evil, and will inconvenience, but you should not lose sight of who is actually responsible.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

ie: "The one with the knuckledusters" or not as it turned out.

They are asking for a further investigation.

Details via http://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/palace-fans-launch-complaint-sussex-police

See the letter in full
http://www.fsf.org.uk/assets/Downlo...laint-Letter-Sussex-Police-Apr-2018-Final.pdf

Quite right too. That 'knives and knuckledusters' BS needs fully investigating, if only to discourage other forces from attempting to do the same. An apology was only forthcoming when Sussex plod got called out on their attempted smear.

 

[Creaky]

So simple isn't it? This all sounds fine in theory, and yes you are right -in theory. I assume that you have never had to police violent mobs, sometimes hundreds strong, when booze and hatred combine to bring out the worst. Sometimes the measures needed to restore order are a case of the lesser evil, and will inconvenience, but you should not lose sight of who is actually responsible.

I don’t disagree with you, as far as it goes.

Was forcing people to get on trains they didn’t want to get on “restoring order”?
Was route marching large numbers past hostile fans “restoring order”?
Was forcing individuals without tickets to go to the stadium “restoring order?

When individuals get restrained because of nothing they’ve done or intend to do but because someone else might do something then they tend to get annoyed. Do this a number of times and many get angry. That’s when order is likely needed to be restored.

I have no problem with being told I can’t do something, this pub is out of bounds, this road is closed etc. or you can’t go here without a ticket. That is not the same as being told you must do something - you must get on this train, you must stay here, you must go this way.

I can’t think of any other sport whose fans are treated in this way or indeed any group of people who when treated in this manner just shrug their shoulders and suggest that all the curtailment of civil liberties was justified.

If we as fans are treated in a similar manner tomorrow then I wonder just how many posts on the subject there will be on here.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

So simple isn't it? This all sounds fine in theory, and yes you are right -in theory. I assume that you have never had to police violent mobs, sometimes hundreds strong, when booze and hatred combine to bring out the worst. Sometimes the measures needed to restore order are a case of the lesser evil, and will inconvenience, but you should not lose sight of who is actually responsible.

I haven't got a problem with restoring order, but sometimes the police action provokes disorder, rather than just policing a crowd. I know your son is in the force, and I have a retired copper in my family. I have also worked alongside the police before I retired, so please don't come back to me with any phrases of 'they wouldn't do that'.

I went up to the Stadium of Light, in 2004, on the Supporters coach which was a mixture of pensioners, elderly, and kids. When we arrived, parked up, a copper got on the bus, before we could get off, and lectured us about where the gate was, where we could cross the road, and not to deviate in any way from it. I felt like I had arrived at Slade Prison, not a football ground.
Some of our older people like to go to the club shop, and buy a metal badge for their collection, or just to wander around, but no, we were not to deviate.

Ever being the rebel, my other half and I hung around on the pavement for a little while, until this officious being had marched off and crossed the road where we wanted. Terrible I know.

Treat people like animals and you automatically cause resentment, even in the most law abiding citizens. Brighton had no reputation, we hadn't been there for donkeys years, but were still treated like Millwall or Leeds would be. It's nonsense.

The police do cause these problems for themselves, insisting on bubble matches for Hull fans going to Huddersfield. Again, there has never been any trouble at that fixture.

I can understand why the FSF gets involved and fights these cases.

Back on thread now.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

Some police are complete ********s and love causing trouble so they can get their tiny batons out

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I would just ban away fans from both fixtures, its just not worth the hassle. This game always brings out the mingmongs in force. I'd happily never see their mob at the Amex again, being as large proportion of them are complete and utter filth and behave like animals. Same with Millwall. We don't need our town and stadium invaded and turned into a military zone just to cater for the minority of fvcknuggets who still think its 1978. I know it gives PPF a hard-on, but really, its just tiresome.

a few bangs and a bit of smoke from a group of black hooded youths gets you all upset , they weren't up for a row just play acting with the OB, that's why they all went to west street and took some photos on the way, if the truth upsets you so be it. I thought the whole episode was a joke .
regards
DR

 

[bhanutz]

a few bangs and a bit of smoke from a group of black hooded youths gets you all upset , they weren't up for a row just play acting with the OB, that's why they all went to west street and took some photos on the way, if the truth upsets you so be it. I thought the whole episode was a joke .
regards
DR

This!

 

[Easy 10]

a few bangs and a bit of smoke from a group of black hooded youths gets you all upset , they weren't up for a row just play acting with the OB, that's why they all went to west street and took some photos on the way, if the truth upsets you so be it. I thought the whole episode was a joke .
regards
DR

To be clear, it doesn't "upset" me at all. I'm just tired of the whole circus surrounding these games, before during and after. I find the immature posturing goons (on both sides) tedious and embarrassing. I'd just prefer it if we didn't have to have an army of police in the town and around the stadium just to cater for a bunch of buffoons who are utterly incapable of behaving like normal functioning adults when this fixture rolls round.

I know it turns you on though. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

To be clear, it doesn't "upset" me at all. I'm just tired of the whole circus surrounding these games, before during and after. I find the immature posturing goons (on both sides) tedious and embarrassing. I'd just prefer it if we didn't have to have an army of police in the town and around the stadium just to cater for a bunch of buffoons who are utterly incapable of behaving like normal functioning adults when this fixture rolls round.

I know it turns you on though. Whatever floats your boat.

Do you think all the other rivalries around the country should be played behind closed doors too?

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

 

[bhanutz]

To be clear, it doesn't "upset" me at all. I'm just tired of the whole circus surrounding these games, before during and after. I find the immature posturing goons (on both sides) tedious and embarrassing. I'd just prefer it if we didn't have to have an army of police in the town and around the stadium just to cater for a bunch of buffoons who are utterly incapable of behaving like normal functioning adults when this fixture rolls round.

I know it turns you on though. Whatever floats your boat.

What a Snowflake!

 

[Easy 10]

Do you think all the other rivalries around the country should be played behind closed doors too?

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

I don't really care tbh. And I didn't say for them to be played behind closed doors - just bin off having the Palace fans down here. They're not worth the hassle.

 

[Mackenzie]

I don't really care tbh. And I didn't say for them to be played behind closed doors - just bin off having the Palace fans down here. They're not worth the hassle.

What hassle?

Watched them twice at the Amex this season, turned up, cheered the team on, went home.

 

[Dougie]

What a Snowflake!

I think the ethnic diversity around Croydon troubles him TBH .

 

[Perry Milkins]

I think the ethnic diversity around Croydon troubles him TBH .

What makes you post that?

Is this an accusation of some sort?

 

[Hastings gull]

I haven't got a problem with restoring order, but sometimes the police action provokes disorder, rather than just policing a crowd. I know your son is in the force, and I have a retired copper in my family. I have also worked alongside the police before I retired, so please don't come back to me with any phrases of 'they wouldn't do that'.

I went up to the Stadium of Light, in 2004, on the Supporters coach which was a mixture of pensioners, elderly, and kids. When we arrived, parked up, a copper got on the bus, before we could get off, and lectured us about where the gate was, where we could cross the road, and not to deviate in any way from it. I felt like I had arrived at Slade Prison, not a football ground.
Some of our older people like to go to the club shop, and buy a metal badge for their collection, or just to wander around, but no, we were not to deviate.

Ever being the rebel, my other half and I hung around on the pavement for a little while, until this officious being had marched off and crossed the road where we wanted. Terrible I know.

Treat people like animals and you automatically cause resentment, even in the most law abiding citizens. Brighton had no reputation, we hadn't been there for donkeys years, but were still treated like Millwall or Leeds would be. It's nonsense.

The police do cause these problems for themselves, insisting on bubble matches for Hull fans going to Huddersfield. Again, there has never been any trouble at that fixture.

I can understand why the FSF gets involved and fights these cases.

Back on thread now.

And please don’t insult me by rubbish such as “don’t come back at me etc” if you know of my family connections with the Police, then you will also have read that on several occasions I have voiced agreement with other posters that the Police are no exception when it comes to an organisation that contains those whose standards fall short of what is required.
Yes, you have no problem with restoring order - which of course is what everyone says so long as they don’t have to be inconvenienced along the way. You quote a specific example and I do agree that seemingly officious individuals, relishing their power, can provoke the opposite reaction. Yes, you may be a rebel, but they have to deal with far more disagreeable rebels, and how do you know that the instruction was not intended for your safety? Do you know what had happened at previous matches and what might have been the reasoning. No, you don’t. The Police operate on intelligence received and sometimes their actions may seem odd, but there could well be a reason for it - and a very good reason. It may have nothing to do with causing the problems for themselves, and with respect, without the intelligence gathered over a period, and watchers at strategic points, you can not possibly be in a position to make the judgements that you blithely do.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I think the ethnic diversity around Croydon troubles him TBH .

What exactly do you mean by that?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

And please don’t insult me by rubbish such as “don’t come back at me etc” if you know of my family connections with the Police, then you will also have read that on several occasions I have voiced agreement with other posters that the Police are no exception when it comes to an organisation that contains those whose standards fall short of what is required.
Yes, you have no problem with restoring order - which of course is what everyone says so long as they don’t have to be inconvenienced along the way. You quote a specific example and I do agree that seemingly officious individuals, relishing their power, can provoke the opposite reaction. Yes, you may be a rebel, but they have to deal with far more disagreeable rebels, and how do you know that the instruction was not intended for your safety? Do you know what had happened at previous matches and what might have been the reasoning. No, you don’t. The Police operate on intelligence received and sometimes their actions may seem odd, but there could well be a reason for it - and a very good reason. It may have nothing to do with causing the problems for themselves, and with respect, without the intelligence gathered over a period, and watchers at strategic points, you can not possibly be in a position to make the judgements that you blithely do.

Don't come over all headmaster to me. I gave a specific example, which if you had read properly, I said we hadn't played them for a long time prior to that game, so there was no reasoning apart from the fact that we were football fans. Insulting you? No, I was pointing out that I also have experience of dealing with and knowing policemen.

Football fans are treated differently to every other section of society, just because they are football fans, and because of the lies, duplicity and deceit over the deaths are Hillsborough.
A copper can decide if a person is drunk at a game, without any proof, breathalyser or excuse. There is a case going on with the FSF right now, where the fan has been banned for three years, simply because a copper decided he was drunk inside a stadium.

 

[Arkwright]

I think the ethnic diversity around Croydon troubles him TBH .

What a statement to make.

 

[Perry Milkins]

What a statement to make.

Both Thunderbolt and I thought so as well.