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“Creation”, the new film about Charles Darwin, unable to get distributor in the US



Acker79

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 15, 2008
31,921
Brighton
I think Evolution is...likely. But I have one confusion:

Say we evolved from Apes. Apes are still around, so surely whatever was between us and Apes (so to speak) would've been stronger and better equipped than an Ape, yet they are not around. Reasons?

This may sound silly in a modern world, but as an example of a possible scenario; it could be something as simple as "the missing link" having a half-length tail. Not having a tail, we don't attempt to use it to climb trees to find resources, we stay on the ground and forage. The missing link meanwhile tries to use it's tail like apes to swing from tree, but half length tale can't support them, they get injure falling from a tree, can't fight for or attract a mate and the species dies out, especially if the community based species of apes rejects it as an outcast, and the newly formed human communites reject it.

Could be a problem with the teeth they have, preventing them from being able to eat a sensible diet, etc. There are several half points of evolution that may not be as beneficial as as either the full change or no change.

As for why we haven't found the missing link, it took until 1824 for us to uncover Dinosaur relics. Just because we haven't found it yet, doesn't mean we won't find it (assuming the relic is on land, with ice age and migration paths, we might not find it until we delve under massive bodies of water for relics.
 
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bhaexpress

New member
Jul 7, 2003
27,627
Kent
That is literally a ridiculous thing to say. The amount of Christians involved with and spearheading charities is huge. A number of my relatives are involved with projects in India and Africa, helping the poor and needy. Not a missionary trip.

You don't have to believe in any God to do that. Somehow I doubt that Sir Bob Geldoff is religious.

I've seen some pretty desperate people with completely broken lives transformed by being invited along to the local church and being made to feel a part of a caring community.

True enough but there's also no shortage of 'holy' people with very strange opinions about people thanks to their religious views. I might sight the nuns at the primary school I went to, far from being 'Brides of Christ' they were a bunch of sadistic bitches who should have gone straight to hell. A more vile set of women would be hard to find.

It is people's faith that has driven them forward to do these things. Don't get me wrong, people can do good deeds without faith, of course they can, but to say there are no benefits is fairly ignorant when you see the massive amounts of good done in the name of faith worldwide.

So people with faith are the only people who live decent lives and help others ? Okay then what about all the 'People with Faith ' who have done (and still do) hideous acts in the name of their faith ? Ever heard of the Crusades ? Nice bit of genocide carried out on 'Non believers' for a start. I could go on, paedophile priests are good people ?
 


looney

Banned
Jul 7, 2003
15,652
like what? other than the bank balance of the church/sect, i dont see how any faith has tangiable benefits. rather the point of "faith".

I was thinking of better results of faith based schools and more stable families but theres others. Comfort from the fear of death, a phsycological crutch, an imaginery friend etc etc.

It really shouldn't need explaining that if you beleive in some objective and yourself you are more likly acheive the objective.
 


Notters

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2003
24,891
Guiseley
I think Evolution is...likely. But I have one confusion:

Say we evolved from Apes. Apes are still around, so surely whatever was between us and Apes (so to speak) would've been stronger and better equipped than an Ape, yet they are not around. Reasons?

No, apes are ideally suited to living in trees, people are ideally suited to living on the ground and on two feet - there is no need for a half-way species to exist, especially as we are actually quite close to apes as it is.
 


Notters

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2003
24,891
Guiseley
As for why we haven't found the missing link, it took until 1824 for us to uncover Dinosaur relics. Just because we haven't founf it yet, doesn't mean we won't find it (assuming the relic is on land, with ice age and migration paths, we might not find it until we delve under massive bodies of water for relics.

Very true. It is estimated that only 1 in 9 billion bones will ever become a fossil.
 




Notters

Well-known member
Oct 20, 2003
24,891
Guiseley
the difference - no wisdom teeth. as our diets have evolved (especially in the west) we have no need for a third molar. Third molars, or wisdom teeth normally emerge in early adulthood (early-mid twenties), in the past this would of been idle, as by this time without dental care and due to the hard abrasive nature of the food, teeth would be worn out or have fallen out. so the third molars purpose was to 'replace' these teeth, allowing us to continue grinding down our food even when the other 2 molars were defunct, or gone.

however, as we no longer need this our jaws are getting smaller, hence a growing number of people needing to have wisdom teeth removed, or who never grow them in the first place.

it may sound like a small petty thing, but it is evolution. it doesnt happen over night, and it is only one small change after another but if all the small changes like this add up, then in a few thousand years time homo sapien sapien will no longer exist.

the other arguement, is that we are beginning to de-volve. evolution takes place to maximise a species rate of survival. i.e grow a longer neck to reach food for a giraffe. but due to the modern advances (which is a result of our bigger brains - therefore bigger brain power - due to evolution) we are no longer subject to nature like we used to and so our bodies are no longer evolving. evolution takes time and repeated use/need of doing some thing, i.e i climb a tree everyday, my son does the same, so does his... over time a grandson down the line (after a long time) will evolve longer fingers, or more arched feet to grip.

No, this is how "evolution" was thought to happen before Darwin described it more accurately and then Dawkins explained it in the Selfish Gene. Repeated use, like an animal stretching its neck or a boy climbing a tree cannot lead to evolution. Evolution works on mutations in genes (which is why it takes a very long time to occur, except for example in lab experiments with fruit flies) and only if these mutations have conveyed an environmental advantage to their beholder. For example, if you and your brothers all climbed trees, but you had a mutant gene which gave you longer arms or whatever and thus you survived whilst all your brothers fell from the tree and broke their necks, then you will pass on that mutation. Evolution, effectively, only acts on individuals that are better equipped to survive and reproduce than their peers.

It is unlikely that evolution is occurring as it would have done now, in humans, as a result of health care, dentistry, medicine and the welfare state. For example, over centuries, peoples’ eyesight would improve as those with genes for myopia would die out after walking in front or buses, or simply being unable to see the blackboard at school and therefore not being able to get a good education. Thanks to opticians, bad eyesight proliferates through society.
 


Nibble

New member
Jan 3, 2007
19,238
It is not the Fittest ,the strongest or the most intelligent who survive but those who are most adaptable to change. Adapt or perish.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,019
That is literally a ridiculous thing to say. The amount of Christians involved with and spearheading charities is huge. A number of my relatives are involved with projects in India and Africa, helping the poor and needy. Not a missionary trip.

are you suggesting that charity is the exclusive preserve of faith groups? of course not, because that really would be a ridiculous thing to say. Sorry, but you've fallen into a trap of believing only altruism is an act of faith, when it is isnt. The point was "measurable" benefits, there is very very little that can be measurably attributed to faith, by definition really.

however i will accept Looney's point about faith based schools that do seem to achive improved performance and results, though i wonder if those benefits have additional factors (ie, parenting where education is valued and aspired to). if comparing non-faith private schooling to faith based private schooling i wonder what differences there are.

got any others?
 




beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,019
Say we evolved from Apes. Apes are still around, so surely whatever was between us and Apes (so to speak) would've been stronger and better equipped than an Ape, yet they are not around. Reasons?

probably because their environment changed and did not suit them, espaicilly if they had developed a specialisation to something that then disappeared. survival of the fittest is a crude and frankly wrong idea: it should be survival of those a bit better than the shittest (not as catchy though).

We are not stronger or better than many animals, we just have a stunning advantage in being able to literally change to the environment (make tools, clothing, weapons) or even change our environment (make fire, homes, herd animals).
 


Nibble

New member
Jan 3, 2007
19,238
ironically it is evolution that gave rise to religion in the first place. As man evolved to farm crops and animals they had much more time because they no longer had to spend days hunting or travelling with their prey. This lead to more time for abstract thought resulting in such practices as praying to effigies for good harvests and rainfall etc.

funny.
 


Spanish Seagulls

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
2,915
Ladbroke Grove
Slumdog Millionaire couldn´t get a distributor either. Apparently.
I can see there being protests outside cinemas in the US when this is actually released. Lots of christian fundamentalists.............. emphasis on mentalists will use this as a platform. Should be fun to watch.
 




DJ Leon

New member
Aug 30, 2003
3,446
Hassocks
Question for the Christians who don't believe in Creationism:

How do you identify which parts of the Bible aren't actually true?
 


Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
32,478
Brighton
are you suggesting that charity is the exclusive preserve of faith groups? of course not, because that really would be a ridiculous thing to say. Sorry, but you've fallen into a trap of believing only altruism is an act of faith, when it is isnt. The point was "measurable" benefits, there is very very little that can be measurably attributed to faith, by definition really.

however i will accept Looney's point about faith based schools that do seem to achive improved performance and results, though i wonder if those benefits have additional factors (ie, parenting where education is valued and aspired to). if comparing non-faith private schooling to faith based private schooling i wonder what differences there are.

got any others?

Read ALL of my post then respond.
 


Mellotron

I've asked for soup
Jul 2, 2008
32,478
Brighton
Question for the Christians who don't believe in Creationism:

How do you identify which parts of the Bible aren't actually true?

That's up to the individual to decide. As with ANY philosophical book/book regarding moral values. We all take what we wish to in every day life at all times from all influences. Simple.
 






DJ Leon

New member
Aug 30, 2003
3,446
Hassocks
That's up to the individual to decide. As with ANY philosophical book/book regarding moral values. We all take what we wish to in every day life at all times from all influences. Simple.

The Bible is philosophical? It's not factual then? Is it the word of God or not?
 


looney

Banned
Jul 7, 2003
15,652
Very little after the OlD testiment is the word of Jehovah. Christianity is a faith based on the god sprog in the new testement. The clues in the name.

BTW

Has anyone here seen the lords prayer in a direct translation from Aramaic? Shows have things get distorted in translation alone.
 


bhaexpress

New member
Jul 7, 2003
27,627
Kent
Why does it matter if God exists/doesn't exist. DOESN'T MATTER IN THE END.

It does actually. If God does exist some of us are in deep shit. On the other hand if he doesn't it means a lot of other people have wasted rather a lot of time.
 




Lyndhurst 14

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2008
5,243
It does actually. If God does exist some of us are in deep shit. On the other hand if he doesn't it means a lot of other people have wasted rather a lot of time.


The thing which is a bit annoying is that if there is a god the believers will be able to jeer and say “I told you so” as all the heathens are pitched into the fires of hell whereas if there is not a god the atheists will obviously be unable to savour the moment when believers find this out as everybody will be fading into oblivion. Oh well.
 




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