Couple held after burglars shot

[Seagull58]

I feel sympathy for the burglars. They just want what rich people like this family have. Not the guns probably though.

How do you know they're "rich people"? The yhave a house in the country, which has been burgled several times. That doesn't make them rich and maybe they worked hard for every penny. Seems to me you have a chip on your shoulder about people who manage not to live in the gutter or on the proceeds of crime.

 

[Seagull58]

Not sure of the details but I think shooting someone is a lot worse than robbing someone

Hence, they were both in the wrong. I don't believe you should be able to take the law in to your own hands unless you feel threatened for your life...

He felt threatened for his life after several previous breakins, which caused them to move out for a while, and managed to wound two of them. SHame he didn't get the other two.

 

[Seagull58]

Errr, please elaborate how you can't see that shooting someone is wrong, just like robbing someone is wrong?

4 men break into the house, after several previous break-ins, at night and the householder is afraid of what they might do. He confronts them and shoots two of them. Fully justified.

 

[Seagull58]

the law is on there side - we dont know all the facts. They have been held by the police to try to accertain the facts. I dont agree with any burglar robbing a house. But the law needs to see what happened. Is it right that you chase a burglar out of your house and shoot him/her in the back as they run away. If they have done what you say there will be no charges under reasonable force. My understanding was Tony Martin laid in wait an shot one of them in the back in the garden... i could be wrong. Just my opinion.

I believe Tony Martin was inside the house and shot the disgusting little toerag as he was climbing out of the window with some of the loot.

 

[DJ Leon]

So to clarify, a masked man (or men) breaks into your home at say 2.45am, it's dark, he is threatening you with say a baseball bat, you are scared witless. Hang on, you have a gun because you have a licence for it for whatever reason, you have a decision to make, shall I shoot this bugger or risk me and my family being clobbered with aforementioned bat.
What do you do, shoot and ask questions later, or ask him about his unfortunate background and cop a big one? We need some perspective here. Sometimes there is no time to make decisions. This is when you need the law to be on YOUR side.

The law is on your side in this scenario. You're getting indignant about nothing.

 

[Seagull58]

the whole system is failing, we should be looking towards a point where wealth and opportunity are spread evenly enough not to cause people to rob in the first place. At this point given that everyone has the opportunity to live a meaningful life, those that choose not to should be punished severely early to dissuade them from a life of crime.

Wealth AND opportunity spread evenly? Surely its one or the other. If you spread wealth evenly there is no opportunity and if you spread opportunity evenly then everyone has a fair chance to accumulate wealth. Its communism vs. capitalism.

 

[Muzzy]

The police are doing what they have to do E.g investigating the/any crime that may have been committed. After all, in this case it was the victim of the alleged burglary that called the police claiming to have shot somebody. It's the CPS that decide whether or not there is a case to answer.

My take on it is. If anybody wishes to break into property or commit a crime against another individual then they have to take the consequences! The term reasonable force is too open to another's interpretation and therefore flawed IMO.

 

[User removed 4]

So a kid is standing face to face with the homeowner of the house they are burgling. What got them to this point? a string of bad decisions, a drug habit, who knows? it happens? They are really a good kid, they just need some help to get back on track, to put their life back toegether. The home owner pulls a gun and pulls the trigger.

Is this okay, this kid could have been rehabilitated, could have lived a decent life.

For every emotive scene you can conjure to support your point there is one to support the other. luckily the law doesn't work that way!

Frighteningly you actually mean this dont you ? You're a teacher as well aren't you ? Jesus f***ing wept no wonder schools suffer from a lack of discipline.

 

[User removed 4]

I feel sympathy for the burglars. They just want what rich people like this family have. Not the guns probably though.

yes , but without f***ing working for it, you tool.

 

[BadFish]

Wealth AND opportunity spread evenly? Surely its one or the other. If you spread wealth evenly there is no opportunity and if you spread opportunity evenly then everyone has a fair chance to accumulate wealth. Its communism vs. capitalism.

Yep and the answer lies somewhere in the middle. There is a balance at which things will work well. At present we do not have that balance. Many people have neither opportunity nor wealth while a few people have both.

 

[BadFish]

Frighteningly you actually mean this dont you ? You're a teacher as well aren't you ? Jesus f***ing wept no wonder schools suffer from a lack of discipline.

Do i actually mean what? That there are more reasons that people get invovlved in burglery than that they are evil and deserve to be shot?

Do i mean that i am glad the law doesn't take a knee jerk emotive stance when deciding or applying the law?

Yes to both.

Quite how this means that it is my fault that schools lack discipline i am not sure.

 

[Kumquat]

yes , but without f***ing working for it, you tool.

Burglary is quite risky an occupation, as has been proved here. I'm sure they'd rather work than burgle.

 

[User removed 4]

Burglary is quite risky an occupation, as has been proved here. I'm sure they'd rather work than burgle.

yes of course they would.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

So to clarify, a masked man (or men) breaks into your home at say 2.45am, it's dark, he is threatening you with say a baseball bat, you are scared witless. Hang on, you have a gun because you have a licence for it for whatever reason, you have a decision to make, shall I shoot this bugger or risk me and my family being clobbered with aforementioned bat.
What do you do, shoot and ask questions later, or ask him about his unfortunate background and cop a big one? We need some perspective here. Sometimes there is no time to make decisions. This is when you need the law to be on YOUR side.

Unfortunately if you shoot someone (even if it is in self defence) you are breaking the rules of having a gun licence, that is because you are using a LETHAL weapon, and you KNOW that firing it will almost certainly result in a fatality. therefore you have ( even if only for a split second ) decided to act to fire said weapon knowing full well what the consequences are.

In this Country, such a train of thought means you will be committing Manslaughter. And that's not legal, under ANY circustance (even in self defence).

If it's NOT ok to shoot someone, and a burglar IS somone, then justice demands that it's NOT ok to shoot burglars, they are human, whether you say so or not.

If you value your own property as being more valuable than a human life then there is something warped about your moral code. It begs the question that if someone in a restaurant accidentally picked up your coat, and you thought they were stealing it, you'd think it would be ok to shoot them? If someone took a bottle of milk off your front doorstep, it's ok to shoot them?

Where do you draw the line to decide when shooting someone ISN'T ok? I mean losing a bottle of milk or a coat is inconvenient yeah, but does the perpatrator deserve to die for it? You'd be justified in stealing a coat or bottle of milk back in return, but if the response is overwhelmingly disproportionate to the crime, then that's not justifiable.

Go down the route of saying it's ok to shoot burglars, and it becomes very easy to use a 'burglary' defence to justify shooting someone whom you might have decide to take a personal dislike to and wanted out of the way. Lets say a few kids bullied me at school, I decide to form a grudge against them and decide to get them in later life. I then become all matey with them as adults, invite them round my house, and then shoot every one of them. When the police come round I tell them I was being burgaled. is that ok?

 

[User removed 4]

Unfortunately if you shoot someone (even if it is in self defence) you are breaking the rules of having a gun licence, that is because you are using a LETHAL weapon, and you KNOW that firing it will almost certainly result in a fatality. therefore you have ( even if only for a split second ) decided to act to fire said weapon knowing full well what the consequences are.

In this Country, such a train of thought means you will be committing Manslaughter. And that's not legal, under ANY circustance (even in self defence).

If it's NOT ok to shoot someone, and a burglar IS somone, then justice demands that it's NOT ok to shoot burglars, they are human, whether you say so or not.

If you value your own property as being more valuable than a human life then there is something warped about your moral code.

I'd prefer it if shooting burglars was legal and occurred on a frequent basis, then we could leave the burglar to make the choice whether somebody else's property was more valuable than his life, for what it's worth I find your readiness to take the side of the criminal WHO HAS MADE A CONSCIOUS CHOICE TO STEAL PROPERTY NOT BELONGING TO HIM/HER, says quite a lot about your moral code.

 

[junior]

Am I REALLY reading this right?

Someobdy is saying that it is ok to burgle people if they have more money than you and you want some of the stuff they have??!!

Surely that has to be someone fishing.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

I'd prefer it if shooting burglars was legal and occurred on a frequent basis, then we could leave the burglar to make the choice whether somebody else's property was more valuable than his life, for what it's worth I find your readiness to take the side of the criminal WHO HAS MADE A CONSCIOUS CHOICE TO STEAL PROPERTY NOT BELONGING TO HIM/HER, says quite a lot about your moral code.

Yeah, it says that I don't really want someone brains, blood and guts splattered all over my living room, nor do I want to see the consequences of said action on his wife, kids, mother, father, brothers or sisters, who would be justified in wanting me locked up for being a too ready to blow someones brains out.

Remember the guy you've shot might have kids, who will have their lives ruined because of what you've done, AND, will grow up to become adults with a massive score to settle, which you will be on the recieving end of, by which time you'll be old, frail, and probably incapable of defending yourself.

 

[marshy68]

So they run away with your tv and belongings and you cant do the robbing bastards?! Have you ever been burgled? I doubt it by your feeble post. Get a grip fella. Tony martin was protecting his home and honour. Jeez i give up.

I have been burgled twice and neither time did i want to shoot the burgler. You want to shoot someone over a tv set? Maybe you should move to the usa seems to your ideals.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

CPS has just announced they wont face charges.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Well that's just typical. Bloody CPS, people will have to find something else to whip them selves up into a rabid fury about now.