Coulson - Liar or just incompetent?

[drew]

Can't believe we haven't seen any threads about this issue in the last couple of days. How many times did we see posts slamming Labour for the march towards a Police state yet judging from the comments of some tory MPs, phone taping by the media, whilst a bit on the naughty side, is acceptable.

Obviously the Labour crowd are making this a big issue, and quite rightly so, whilst the coalition are dismissing it as meaningless as any evidence suggesting Coulson was in the know about the tapping would then impinge on Camerons judgement and the fact that he has employed him as director of communications!

The reason it is an issue is that what would happen if the tapping revealed some seedy nature of an MPs life and, rather than use that information to sell newspapers, a newspaper mogul with self interests uses the it as pressure to affect policy decisions. Take for example the Hague issue. What if Hague had a remit that included the media and, for argument sake Rupert Murdoch wanted a particular piece of legislation to go through, and as part of a phone tapping exercise Rupert Murdoch had found out that Hague was in fact gay. It wasn't long ago that News Interenational were seeking changes to broadcasting rules in the UK stipulating that News programming had to be impartial. An obvious attempt to allow Sky News to go down the Fox News route!


The question is how much power (and abuse of it) are we prepared to allow a small minority of self interested press barons to have over our lives?

Discuss.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

Tapping is illegal. The guy that did it was prosecuted. Coulson didn't know about it but resgined anyway. It's just a silly season story, like the one saying that Kennedy was going to defect to Labout

 

[keaton]

I'm pretty certain it's the reason and the Hague goings on are the reason all the stuff about Rooney has come out in the press to distract attention away from the NOTW/Murdoch and the Tories

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Tapping is illegal. The guy that did it was prosecuted. Coulson didn't know about it but resgined anyway. It's just a silly season story, like the one saying that Kennedy was going to defect to Labout

Well this is the part under question. Evidence from NYT investigation is starting to suggest he did.

 

[DIFFBROOK]

I think what is damming is that he claims he didn't know what his staff were up to. Incompetent then, which means he is in the right place at Tory HQ

 

[hans kraay fan club]

He's a liar.

 

[GOM]

He's a liar.

Fact ? or merely a potentially libelous opinion ?

 

[drew]

Tapping is illegal. The guy that did it was prosecuted. Coulson didn't know about it but resgined anyway. It's just a silly season story, like the one saying that Kennedy was going to defect to Labout

Exactly how do you know he didn't know about it?

 

[ROSM]

It depends if 'do what you need to to get the story' and then deliberately turning a blind eye is a total deviation from what he said already. If it is then he's a liar. If it isn't then he's just incompetent/stupid.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

Exactly how do you know he didn't know about it?

Exactly how do you know that he did?

 

[drew]

Exactly how do you know that he did?

I don't know but the evidence seems to be heading that way hence the Police may now reopen their investigation. However, as you appear to know for a fact that he didn't know then thats the problem solved!!!!

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

I don't know but the evidence seems to be heading that way hence the Police may now reopen their investigation. However, as you appear to know for a fact that he didn't know then thats the problem solved!!!!

From my reading of the NYT stuff it appears mostly to be stuff that implies that he was the editor of a Sunday tabloid that uncovers scandalous stories.

Unless some evidence emerges that ties him specifically to the case then nothing is going to change.

 

[Tubby Mondays]

Well either way it is bound to be the fault of the previous Government, and we are just clearing up the mess they left behind blah blah blah etc etc.

 

[drew]

From my reading of the NYT stuff it appears mostly to be stuff that implies that he was the editor of a Sunday tabloid that uncovers scandalous stories.

Unless some evidence emerges that ties him specifically to the case then nothing is going to change.

that deserves at least a couple of

 

[NS Herald]

Tapping is illegal. The guy that did it was prosecuted. Coulson didn't know about it but resgined anyway. It's just a silly season story, like the one saying that Kennedy was going to defect to Labout

If Andy Coulson didn't know about it then my name is Micky Mouse. The real question is did he sanction it and IMHO I suspect he did - officially or otherwise

 

[simmo]

Can't believe we haven't seen any threads about this issue in the last couple of days. How many times did we see posts slamming Labour for the march towards a Police state yet judging from the comments of some tory MPs, phone taping by the media, whilst a bit on the naughty side, is acceptable.

Obviously the Labour crowd are making this a big issue, and quite rightly so, whilst the coalition are dismissing it as meaningless as any evidence suggesting Coulson was in the know about the tapping would then impinge on Camerons judgement and the fact that he has employed him as director of communications!

The reason it is an issue is that what would happen if the tapping revealed some seedy nature of an MPs life and, rather than use that information to sell newspapers, a newspaper mogul with self interests uses the it as pressure to affect policy decisions. Take for example the Hague issue. What if Hague had a remit that included the media and, for argument sake Rupert Murdoch wanted a particular piece of legislation to go through, and as part of a phone tapping exercise Rupert Murdoch had found out that Hague was in fact gay. It wasn't long ago that News Interenational were seeking changes to broadcasting rules in the UK stipulating that News programming had to be impartial. An obvious attempt to allow Sky News to go down the Fox News route!


The question is how much power (and abuse of it) are we prepared to allow a small minority of self interested press barons to have over our lives?

Discuss.

Can believe you brought this up. Not surely because Coulson works for Cameron!

I tell you what as we are on the subject of spin doctors let us talk about how David Kelly was treated by previous Labour spin doctors shall we. Some people believe that the deliberate rubbishing, besmirchment and belittling of David Kelly by the Labour machine in the press and TV made him commit suicide in shame.

What is worse a) in theory the sanctioning of phone tapping (which it actually wasn't it was dialing into listen to left voicemail messages) prior to working for the Tory Party or b) the deliberate smearing and twisting and rubbishing which led to the sucicide of David Kelly coming directly from the heart of the UK government. Seeing as there was no need for resignation over the Kelly incident I am not quite so sure what Labour supporters find so interesting about what Coulson did before he got anywhere near Cameron eventhough it has previously been investigated by police and they found no need to charge Coulson in the first place.

 

[drew]

Can believe you brought this up. Not surely because Coulson works for Cameron!

I tell you what as we are on the subject of spin doctors let us talk about how David Kelly was treated by previous Labour spin doctors shall we. Some people believe that the deliberate rubbishing, besmirchment and belittling of David Kelly by the Labour machine in the press and TV made him commit suicide in shame.

What is worse a) in theory the sanctioning of phone tapping (which it actually wasn't it was dialing into listen to left voicemail messages) prior to working for the Tory Party or b) the deliberate smearing and twisting and rubbishing which led to the sucicide of David Kelly coming directly from the heart of the UK government. Seeing as there was no need for resignation over the Kelly incident I am not quite so sure what Labour supporters find so interesting about what Coulson did before he got anywhere near Cameron eventhough it has previously been investigated by police and they found no need to charge Coulson in the first place.

Firstly, I am not going to defend any spin relating to David Kelly as there are still questions about the whole issue that need addressing. However, two wrongs don't make a right. Whether it is technically tapping or not, it is illegal. Now, there have been plenty of Tories quoted a few days ago as saying that it was investigated by the Police several years ago so that is the end of the matter. Do you have the same views about David Kelly, afterall that had an inquiry into the affair. Do you think that was resolved satisfactorily?

As a Tory, it is understandable that you will seek to deflect any criticism of Cameron's judgement in employing Coulson but whether you like it or not, if he has been involved in criminal activity then that does have a bearing on his current position, especially if he is found to have been lying at the time. If Coulson is found to have lied I don't for one minute expect that anyone believes Cameron will resign, but he would have to off load Coulson and he is, at the moment, Camerons link to the influential Murdoch.

 

[beorhthelm]

Well this is the part under question. Evidence from NYT investigation is starting to suggest he did.

the same NYT that is owned by the rivals to News Corporation, who are both engaged in tit for tat attacks on each other in the US. NYT have not provided their evidence to the police, unless they do we'll never know how true it is.

 

[drew]

the same NYT that is owned by the rivals to News Corporation, who are both engaged in tit for tat attacks on each other in the US. NYT have not provided their evidence to the police, unless they do we'll never know how true it is.

You know as well as I do that no rag is going to hand over their evidence/source to the Police but there is enough in the article to suggest the Police need to go back to their original investigation and interview considerably more hacks than the just the one that got jailed and the investigator.

And of course, I'm sure the NYT would take great pleasure in scoring a point or two off Murdoch but what's wrong with that if justice is seen to be done from our point of view.

 

[Dandyman]

Either a liar or unfit to be an editor if he did not know what his staff were up to.


Given the cosy relationship between the Met and News International do not expect this to go anywhere much.