No but that's not what you said. You said that countries in the EU couldn't reduce VAT on energy bills. I pointed out Spain (and I see Portugal and Austria too) has done exactly that
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[Politics] Cost of Living Crisis
- Thread starter Machiavelli
- Start date
No but that's not what you said. You said that countries in the EU couldn't reduce VAT on energy bills. I pointed out Spain (and I see Portugal and Austria too) has done exactly that
This a result of Brexit, Covid19, the growth of energy demand from China on the back of demand from the West, an incompetent UK Government, The national debt, the incompetence of previous government of all colours to invest sufficiently in renewable resources while pushing for gas to provide electricity, the short sightedness to sell off the UKs oil and gas and not using it to fund a national fund similar to that of Norway, exploitive opportunist individuals and corporate companies is making hay why the sun shines.
The uk was is and will continue to be up s**t street when the nations largest company is HSBC which we the tax payers had to bail out only a few years ago
The uk was is and will continue to be up s**t street when the nations largest company is HSBC which we the tax payers had to bail out only a few years ago
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I don’t think HSBC participated in the bail out.
Weststander
Well-known member
We never buy ready meals.
Sainbury's and Waitrose have taken the p in the pandemic, bills there exploded upwards. Opportunists.
But there's no way our Aldi/Lidl annual spend has doubled since January 2021. 5% maximum.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,025
thats a ton of problems there which are largely long term and common across the west. our solutions will be limited be we dont want to pay for them (though we say we do) or have them built near us.
(note HSBC was not bailed out).
Weststander
Well-known member
Norway had a population of 4.2m when it started the two sovereign wealth funds in 1990.
The UK's was 57m.
So a hypothetical wealth fund here would've been 7.4% per capita that of Norway's.
(Not dissimilar reserves).
Moreover, the higher population UK rapidly used it reserves, by 2004 we'd become a net importer of gas in 2004 and oil in 2005. Whereas Norway throughout have been able to export to the world.
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,889
Can they reduce them to 0% or are they operating within minimum rates set by the EU?
The U.K. could reduce them to 0% and more importantly should.
Any U.K. Politicians that say they will reduce or remove rates and then renege on such promises should be punished……they have complete control now we are out.
Apologies but they are listed as the biggest uk company and they are Chinese owned
As demonstrated by the Shell figures, it's not as if fuel companies are on their uppers is it? The oil companies I worked for (as a consultant) used to hedge against the price of crude increasing. A bit odd that gas suppliers appear not to do the same.
The shareholders and senior managers of the gas companies continue to enrich themselves at the expense of the poorest and most vulnerable in society. Tory MPs won't do anything to stop the ridiculous price hike because they don't want to risk any cosy "consultancies" or non-exec directorships do they?
And what of Ofgem? Their mission statement says:-
Ofgem is Great Britain’s independent energy regulator.
We work to protect energy consumers, especially vulnerable people, by ensuring they are treated fairly and benefit from a cleaner, greener environment.
Yeah. Right. Because sanctioning a ~50% increase is really protecting vulnerable people. They aren't protecting energy consumers, they are protecting the fuel companies. Not fit for purpose.
The shareholders and senior managers of the gas companies continue to enrich themselves at the expense of the poorest and most vulnerable in society. Tory MPs won't do anything to stop the ridiculous price hike because they don't want to risk any cosy "consultancies" or non-exec directorships do they?
And what of Ofgem? Their mission statement says:-
Ofgem is Great Britain’s independent energy regulator.
We work to protect energy consumers, especially vulnerable people, by ensuring they are treated fairly and benefit from a cleaner, greener environment.
Yeah. Right. Because sanctioning a ~50% increase is really protecting vulnerable people. They aren't protecting energy consumers, they are protecting the fuel companies. Not fit for purpose.
deletebeepbeepbeep
Well-known member
- May 12, 2009
- 21,806
They were eligible but chose not to.
I rest my case.
All true but as you pointed out Norways and the UKs reserves were similar and Norways wealth fund currently stands at £1.3 trillion while ours could have been the same
Weststander
Well-known member
They exported their oil and gas, we used much of ours.
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,889
No it’s not, EU countries work within minimum rates of VAT set by the EU commission.
Any other country not in the EU can do whatever it likes, as agreed by its own elected representatives.
It’s that simple.
We sold ours off to private companies and we ten buy it back at the current high levels 44% of the UKs gas is supplied this way Norways is win win ours was short sighted quick win
nicko31
Well-known member
There are no longer subsidies on offshore wind its not needed anymore, yes it is intermittent but that isn't a reason to build more. When we have strong westerlies and we have too much we can export it or store it
Not all renewables are intermittent, take tidal which has huge potential and what about green gas from grass (I see there a plant being built in Reading the first of its kind)
The UK can be energy self sufficient, then we can forget being reliant on the worldwide energy prices, not to mention having to deal with dodgy regimes
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,025
private companies are merely a conduit. point is we have 10x the population, ~10x the consumption. we simply couldnt have amassed similar fund unless we exported it all as Norway did.
Guess I need to get back to Aldi then. We've not been going there since the pandemic as, frankly, it was far too chaotic (despite us having a brand new one 1/4 mile away).
Weststander
Well-known member
I agree on that.
Since the first North Sea gas brought ashore in 1967, later oil, there was no long term strategy.
Just consumption and using tax revenues to service our ever growing national debts as we lurched from crisis to budget deficits to crisis.