[Finance] Conveyancing fees - Advice please

[Uncle Spielberg]

Seems high. Get a breakdown. Solicitors costs would be £ 800 plus vat as a guide on sale and purchase

 

[lost in london]

Just to add, fees may be higher than for a pure freehold purchase if the property is a leasehold flat, if title insurance was needed, if it was a new build, if you bought with help to buy, if it was first registration etc. Some of that they might have known on day 1, other unforseen things that bumped up the price might have come out as the matter progressed.

Instinct is naturally always to assume lawyers are out to shaft you, but that's almost certainly not the case on a straightforward residential property transaction and their breakdown will hopefully explain everything.

 

[Glawstergull]

I’m currently sitting watching the cricket on tv while waiting for the call that says the keys for our new home.
The fees seem high proportional to the purchase price

 

[B-right-on]

Just to add, fees may be higher than for a pure freehold purchase if the property is a leasehold flat, if title insurance was needed, if it was a new build, if you bought with help to buy, if it was first registration etc. Some of that they might have known on day 1, other unforseen things that bumped up the price might have come out as the matter progressed.

Instinct is naturally always to assume lawyers are out to shaft you, but that's almost certainly not the case on a straightforward residential property transaction and their breakdown will hopefully explain everything.

This. If it's a straight forward freehold res property bought for £295-£210k per your stamp duty, then this is high.

But if it's a leasehold with lots of negotiations on the lease then this could be possible. My daughter sold her 1 bed flat last year and bought a 3 bed semi and the legal fees for the sale were more than the purchase (without search fees) bcs of the leasehold negotiations.

 

[The Andy Naylor Fan Club]

This. If it's a straight forward freehold res property bought for £295-£210k per your stamp duty, then this is high.

But if it's a leasehold with lots of negotiations on the lease then this could be possible. My daughter sold her 1 bed flat last year and bought a 3 bed semi and the legal fees for the sale were more than the purchase (without search fees) bcs of the leasehold negotiations.

Just to add, fees may be higher than for a pure freehold purchase if the property is a leasehold flat, if title insurance was needed, if it was a new build, if you bought with help to buy, if it was first registration etc. Some of that they might have known on day 1, other unforseen things that bumped up the price might have come out as the matter progressed.

Instinct is naturally always to assume lawyers are out to shaft you, but that's almost certainly not the case on a straightforward residential property transaction and their breakdown will hopefully explain everything.

Thanks for the info. It is a one quarter share of the freehold. I asked on this forum as I know other posters have experience in this field. I did fire off an email asking for a breakdown of the bill last Wednesday. On Tuesday I posted this thread to ask for advice as I had not heard back. I phoned the solicitors yesterday to leave my enquiry with them and still, to this minute they have not had the courtesy to reply

 

[lost in london]

Thanks for the info. It is a one quarter share of the freehold. I asked on this forum as I know other posters have experience in this field. I did fire off an email asking for a breakdown of the bill last Wednesday. On Tuesday I posted this thread to ask for advice as I had not heard back. I phoned the solicitors yesterday to leave my enquiry with them and still, to this minute they have not had the courtesy to reply

I'm afraid that's probably the answer then - you've essentially got two deals going on, the purchase of the leasehold interest, and the purchase of the vendor's share of the freehold. Can't imagine it was straightforward to do and would have been quite a bit more than a normal freehold purchase, in part because the mortgagee would have had all manner of requirements that the conveyancer had to tick off. I think the price is fair.

 

[The Andy Naylor Fan Club]

Ok, thank you. That seems fair enough then. It would have been nice for my solicitor to give me that info himself. Thanks again.

 

[Arthritic Toe]

In my life I've had six completions. Three of them have had 'accidental' arithmetic errors on the final completion, always in the solicitors favour. With the large sums of money flying around and the distraction of moving house, its very easy to miss. The errors have always been laughed off with a sort of 'oh silly me' response. A cynic might think that here is an endemic honesty problem in the industry.

 

[NooBHA]

Thank you. I found the hard copy of the 72 page letter that we got after instructing them to deal with our purchase. It sets out what they will do on our behalf and I found the section on their fees........
View attachment 110847
They are left blank

That Contract is not ''Binding'' without the amounts


Ask them to list all ''Incidental Costs'' of the sale/purchase and ask for a copy of receipts confirming confirmation of payment made by them on your behalf.


Then ask them for a copy of their own ''time costs'' - You can ask for a full breakdown showing virtually minute they spent by them as they are required by law to record their time; Given that there is no actual agreement of their charges on that letter. T The ''default position in the absence of a '' pre-agreed set fee '' should be to charge actual time spent.

It is actually illegal for them to ''overcharge''

 

[rabbitmaddie]

This feels to me like there are some hidden fees, perhaps relating to an estate agent or financial adviser, who recommend the solicitor. The intermediary promises a competitive price, but adds their commission to the amount you are charged by the solicitor. The agent may also "buy" the search bundle on your behalf, and add commissions there. As pointed out earlier, the search bundle is typically £350, or so, but is often sold by certain estate agent chains for £600+. And while this is going on, the solicitor has been squeezed down to a very thin fee for their service, since the business is being introduced to them by the agent.

 

[Live by the sea]

I'm assuming you used a proper local solicitor and not one of these legal call centre affairs usually based in Birmingham or Nottingham because they really do provide a terrible standard of service.

Conveyancing costs are worked out mainly on the amount of the transaction and the difficulty. So if you were buying a house freehold with no major issues at a price of say £850,000 the conveyancing costs would be several hundred pounds more than if the buying price was £500,000.

More if it were a leasehold flat with similar prices and not a straight forward lease.

 

[South Stand Bonfire]

In my life I've had six completions. Three of them have had 'accidental' arithmetic errors on the final completion, always in the solicitors favour. With the large sums of money flying around and the distraction of moving house, its very easy to miss. The errors have always been laughed off with a sort of 'oh silly me' response. A cynic might think that here is an endemic honesty problem in the industry.

My brother years ago was quoted by a very well known solicitors to do conveyancing work. The fee was stated to be inclusive of VAT. They then billed him For this fee plus a further amount for VAT. When challenged they justified it in that they made a mistake in their original quote. Only when he said he would report them did they backtrack. Challenge them, that cost does seem high. Conversely , if they left the fees blank in your written quote but you have an email quoting a lower fee, then that is the basis upon which they should invoice you. If they try and justify a higher fee on the basis it was more complex work than they originally envisaged, ask them to send you a copy of the authority from you confirming you accepted the additional fees. Good luck!

 

[drew]

Could the fine folk of NSC advise me of what sort of bill I should have received from my solicitor in regards to their conveyancing fees. Having moved a couple of months ago I sat down and went over the paperwork for their services. I paid £2,400 for what is itemised as Solicitor fees,HM Land registry fees ( not stamp duty ) and search fees. I was led to believe their own fee was £695+VAT via their website. I would like to know if the monies I paid are about right ( can't believe HM Land reg and searches are £1,600 ), before I phone or email and make myself look a plonker. Thanks for your time.

Where did you get the figure of £695? If it's on their website then take a screen shot in case it get's changed. I'd also check with the Land Registry to see exactly what they charge for a search. Last time I moved I'm sure the solicitors itemized everything.

 

[The Andy Naylor Fan Club]

Where did you get the figure of £695? If it's on their website then take a screen shot in case it get's changed. I'd also check with the Land Registry to see exactly what they charge for a search. Last time I moved I'm sure the solicitors itemized everything.

From their website...

We will always give you an individual cost estimate at the start of your transaction, taking into account the actual features of your purchase. We will always advise you immediately about any unexpected complications, and fully discuss the potential cost implications before any additional charges are incurred.

Our fees for a typical house sale or purchase range from around £695 +VAT for a simple transaction to around £5,000 +VAT for a substantial historic building on unregistered land.

Having gone through their correspondence I can find no mention of an estimate. My bad, it has been a learning curve from which I now know what to look out for or ask in the future.

 

[knocky1]

From their website...

We will always give you an individual cost estimate at the start of your transaction, taking into account the actual features of your purchase. We will always advise you immediately about any unexpected complications, and fully discuss the potential cost implications before any additional charges are incurred.

Our fees for a typical house sale or purchase range from around £695 +VAT for a simple transaction to around £5,000 +VAT for a substantial historic building on unregistered land.

Having gone through their correspondence I can find no mention of an estimate. My bad, it has been a learning curve from which I now know what to look out for or ask in the future.

It’s happened to me before and may again. Dickens wrote about the unscrupulous legal system and it hasn’t got any better.
All in the past now. Breathe and get ready for the builders.

 

[lost in london]

From their website...

We will always give you an individual cost estimate at the start of your transaction, taking into account the actual features of your purchase. We will always advise you immediately about any unexpected complications, and fully discuss the potential cost implications before any additional charges are incurred.

Our fees for a typical house sale or purchase range from around £695 +VAT for a simple transaction to around £5,000 +VAT for a substantial historic building on unregistered land.

Having gone through their correspondence I can find no mention of an estimate. My bad, it has been a learning curve from which I now know what to look out for or ask in the future.

Despite what I’ve said above, it’s not your fault. There is huge pressure on conveyancers at the minute to be clearer on fees. They should never be surprising you with the price at the end of the deal. Ask them for a breakdown of the fee, and ask them for evidence of them telling you in advance what the fee would be. You’ve got nothing to lose and maybe a few hundred quid to gain.

 

[GAZTASTIC]

Thanks for the info. It is a one quarter share of the freehold. I asked on this forum as I know other posters have experience in this field. I did fire off an email asking for a breakdown of the bill last Wednesday. On Tuesday I posted this thread to ask for advice as I had not heard back. I phoned the solicitors yesterday to leave my enquiry with them and still, to this minute they have not had the courtesy to reply

In the continued absence of a reply from them, and in view of the lack of figures on page 6 of the engagement letter I would suggest you follow the attached process -

Follow their complaints procedure as set out in their 72 page engagement document. If that fails complain to the Legal Ombudsman, as follows:-
https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/for-the-public/using-a-solicitor/complain-about-a-solicitor/

Do. however, make sure that their detailed invoice isn't with the bundle of papers sent to you on completion. Solicitors have to comply with very strict rules about fees etc, which is why most complaints to the LO are about fees.

Good luck.

 

[DEN_WSU]

I'm purchasing at the minute, I've been quoted £892 for legal fees and £357 for searches. So far I've not been told it's going to increase further and all searches are now complete. Not sure if that's much help, or any at all.

 

[The Andy Naylor Fan Club]

Sorry to bore you guys but I still have not had a reply from my solicitor in regards to this matter. I knew the final bill I had paid was niggling me for a reason and now I think I know why. I have found a copy of a draft statement which I received one week before completion. I understand it is a draft copy but the figures still don't add up.
Draft copy,
Our costs - £1182.00
Land registry fee - £135.00
Searches - £354.00
Total = £1,671.00

One week later on completion the final invoice which was not itemised was paid at £2,472.00

Is it really possible that we could have incurred £801 ( the difference ) in charges that had been missed.

 

[The Andy Naylor Fan Club]

Their Land Registry and searches fee are around £1,000 over. Check the small print and don’t sue them using the voice of NSC. Your money and pringles will disappear at an alarming rate.

If you are unhappy and they are solicitors rather than conveyancers, you can threaten to report them to the Law Society (I think that’s right). Thieving b*******. Good luck.

Sorry - they use interchangeable names - completion statement, financial statement, statement of account etc. That's what confirms the balance of what you need to pay pre completion, with the various bits then being used as set out. However, it's pretty standard practice to send the client a receipted invoice to show you've paid that 2.4k - I'd check for that in your papers. If it's not there, the lawyer should be able to give you a copy without any fuss.

I'll echo what others are saying and suggest that you ask for a breakdown.

I moved six months ago and my conveyancer gave me a breakdown that showed what their charge was (and the VAT) and also all of the fees that were owed for any searches, registrations and any money transfers that were undertaken. Within that they charged me a search fee of £162. The Land Registry fee is dependent on the value of the property and is done on a sliding scale. Costs can be found at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/hm-land-registry-registration-services-fees

Searches would probably be in the region of £600
Land Registry fee for a c.£210,000 freehold purchase price is £135 (assuming they registered electronically which they really should have)
Leaves you with about £1,650 +VAT legal fees

Just ask them for a breakdown of their invoice.

Fees should be on their website: https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/news/...e-for-law-firms-publishing-price-information/

Seems high. Get a breakdown. Solicitors costs would be £ 800 plus vat as a guide on sale and purchase

I’m currently sitting watching the cricket on tv while waiting for the call that says the keys for our new home.
The fees seem high proportional to the purchase price

This. If it's a straight forward freehold res property bought for £295-£210k per your stamp duty, then this is high.

But if it's a leasehold with lots of negotiations on the lease then this could be possible. My daughter sold her 1 bed flat last year and bought a 3 bed semi and the legal fees for the sale were more than the purchase (without search fees) bcs of the leasehold negotiations.

In my life I've had six completions. Three of them have had 'accidental' arithmetic errors on the final completion, always in the solicitors favour. With the large sums of money flying around and the distraction of moving house, its very easy to miss. The errors have always been laughed off with a sort of 'oh silly me' response. A cynic might think that here is an endemic honesty problem in the industry.

This feels to me like there are some hidden fees, perhaps relating to an estate agent or financial adviser, who recommend the solicitor. The intermediary promises a competitive price, but adds their commission to the amount you are charged by the solicitor. The agent may also "buy" the search bundle on your behalf, and add commissions there. As pointed out earlier, the search bundle is typically £350, or so, but is often sold by certain estate agent chains for £600+. And while this is going on, the solicitor has been squeezed down to a very thin fee for their service, since the business is being introduced to them by the agent.

Hi guys,
Many thanks for the info you supplied. NSC the gift that keeps on giving. I had to escalate this to the company's complaints department and finally today they have come back with a figure of £861.00 that we were overcharged! I am still waiting for an explanation as to why this happened but at least we got there with your help. Apologies if I have missed anyone. Thanks again.