[Politics] Conservative Party Conference

[Raleigh Chopper]

There was nothing to stop any government from raising the minimum wages.

And, in the meantime, Sir Peter Bottomly, is grizzling that he can’t manage on £82K per annum, and wants MPs to have a wage rise.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/10/06/tory...-81k-a-year-can-be-really-grim-15371935/amp/?

And on the day £20 was taken back in UC, the timing was ghastly.
All this talk of wages and yet it is the poorest who work long hours that are not getting a raise and no talk of raising the minimum wage.
Also public sector workers on a lower pay scale have been given a pay cut.
Take £20 or raise NI to someone who earns upwards of say £60k and they won't blink, take it from someone on living wage or a low paid job and it is crucifying.
Still that is the Tories for you.

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

I was asked to speak at the Conservative Conference a few years back and only realised when I got there that it was live on TV.

 

[Machiavelli]

It's quite amusing seeing how many people are dead set against workers at the bottom end finally getting decent wage increases now the supply of endless imported cheap labour has gone. I'm sure they always thought about inflationary pressures when they were feathering there own nests ...

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I'm for those on lower wages getting paid more, and those with obscene wealth having it expropriated, but I welcome your conversion to the former at the very least.
To test this newfound commitment, let's see if you can respond to this particular challenge (PS, bet you can't, don't or won't, but you can always prove this wrong):
-- what is the average current wage of a care worker? What source are you basing this claim on?
-- what do yo predict to be the average wage of a care worker by the time of the next election?

 

[Bozza]

And, in the meantime, Sir Peter Bottomly, is grizzling that he can’t manage on £82K per annum, and wants MPs to have a wage rise.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/10/06/tory...-81k-a-year-can-be-really-grim-15371935/amp/?

I'm no fan of the man, but he doesn't say that at all, does he?

The article covers his comments regarding other MPs, not himself...

Although he said he currently is not struggling financially, he believes the situation is ‘desperately difficult’ for his newer colleagues.

The Worthing West, in West Sussex representive added: ‘I don’t know how they manage. It’s really grim.’​

I think a case could be made for better pay for MPs, if we believed it would attract a better calibre of person into the field of politics, but it's still difficult to understand how, in most areas of the country, c£82k (plus expenses) won't allow a reasonable standard of living.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

I'm no fan of the man, but he doesn't say that at all, does he?

The article covers his comments regarding other MPs, not himself...

Although he said he currently is not struggling financially, he believes the situation is ‘desperately difficult’ for his newer colleagues.

The Worthing West, in West Sussex representive added: ‘I don’t know how they manage. It’s really grim.’​

I think a case could be made for better pay for MPs, if we believed it would attract a better calibre of person into the field of politics, but it's still difficult to understand how, in most areas of the country, c£82k (plus expenses) won't allow a reasonable standard of living.

Whenever people pick on MPs salaries, they seem to forget they could be out of a job every 5 years, or less recently. It also takes a huge amount of work (for most candidates) pre-election to build up support from their local parties to actually get a selection to stand for a seat, then all the campaigning, organising all your volunteers, then boom you don't get elected.

Our top positions of government; Secretary of State or the Foreign Secretary earn the same as the Chief Exec of Brighton and Hove City Council. How does anyone equate the flak and responsibility to running a ministry with a local authority?

It's a really difficult equation of someone prepared to give up their career in the outside world for a shot at being an MP for what could be just a single term.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Whenever people pick on MPs salaries, they seem to forget they could be out of a job every 5 years, or less recently. It also takes a huge amount of work (for most candidates) pre-election to build up support from their local parties to actually get a selection to stand for a seat, then all the campaigning, organising all your volunteers, then boom you don't get elected.

Our top positions of government; Secretary of State or the Foreign Secretary earn the same as the Chief Exec of Brighton and Hove City Council. How does anyone equate the flak and responsibility to running a ministry with a local authority?

It's a really difficult equation of someone prepared to give up their career in the outside world for a shot at being an MP for what could be just a single term.

There's not one MP in history who has struggled for work after they've left parliament. It's an incredible thing to have on their CV.

There are plenty of people in much more precarious work than them as well

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Whenever people pick on MPs salaries, they seem to forget they could be out of a job every 5 years, or less recently. It also takes a huge amount of work (for most candidates) pre-election to build up support from their local parties to actually get a selection to stand for a seat, then all the campaigning, organising all your volunteers, then boom you don't get elected.

Our top positions of government; Secretary of State or the Foreign Secretary earn the same as the Chief Exec of Brighton and Hove City Council. How does anyone equate the flak and responsibility to running a ministry with a local authority?

It's a really difficult equation of someone prepared to give up their career in the outside world for a shot at being an MP for what could be just a single term.

Whilst not underestimating the work that goes into campaigning, (although not so much in a 'safe' seat) I think someone on minimum wage, on a zero hours contract, losing £20 Universal Credit, is going to struggle a lot more than someone who has a job for five years.
Then the politicians get £26 a day food allowance, a subsidised bar, claim travel expenses, and stationery etc etc.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Whilst not underestimating the work that goes into campaigning, (although not so much in a 'safe' seat) I think someone on minimum wage, on a zero hours contract, losing £20 Universal Credit, is going to struggle a lot more than someone who has a job for five years.
Then the politicians get £26 a day food allowance, a subsidised bar, claim travel expenses, and stationery etc etc.

Surely you can compare a multitude of public and civil service roles with that example? The 'Assistant' Directors of Finance & HR in Brighton Council earn more than an MP in as secure a job as they could probably wish for. The actual directors earn more than some ministers in government. Where do we go to compare what an MP should earn - the very poorest, or look around the rest of our public service roles?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Surely you can compare a multitude of public and civil service roles with that example? The 'Assistant' Directors of Finance & HR in Brighton Council earn more than an MP in as secure a job as they could probably wish for. The actual directors earn more than some ministers in government. Where do we go to compare what an MP should earn - the very poorest, or look around the rest of our public service roles?

The Civil Service who actually do the job? How many hours does an MP actually work? Friday is surgery day, but at any one time, how many are in the House of Commons?

 

[clapham_gull]

I think a case could be made for better pay for MPs, if we believed it would attract a better calibre of person into the field of politics

But you'd have to ban them from taking outside jobs.

There aren't many "full time" professions where you can top up with a huge salary elsewhere. How would anyone find the time anyway ?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'm no fan of the man, but he doesn't say that at all, does he?

The article covers his comments regarding other MPs, not himself...

Although he said he currently is not struggling financially, he believes the situation is ‘desperately difficult’ for his newer colleagues.

The Worthing West, in West Sussex representive added: ‘I don’t know how they manage. It’s really grim.’​

I think a case could be made for better pay for MPs, if we believed it would attract a better calibre of person into the field of politics, but it's still difficult to understand how, in most areas of the country, c£82k (plus expenses) won't allow a reasonable standard of living.

I take your point about Bottomly, and the annual salary. I think Bumly has conflated salary with job security and created a nonsense.

The issue of MPs pay is nuanced. As [MENTION=33881]KeegansHairPiece[/MENTION] points out, being an MP is not a career unless there is cetainty the seat is safe (which is true for fewer than half of all seats). Therefore an aspiring MP needs either to be independently wealthy (like Sunak - who I rather like) or with a career that can easly be rejoined if the electorate decide to boot you out, or a gung ho personality ready to take what comes.

I think this generates a good mix of MPs.

The idea of making MPs' salaries higher for sake of their financial security is actually absurd. This is partly because the annual salary is already decent and secondly because the idea of being a lifelong MP for primary salary income is also absurd.

Lerts imagine we crank up the salary to that of a GP, and add in generous provision in case the seat is lost, what then? It would attract a great number of the types I see who try to get into medical school. They are only in it for the money, and a bit of family prestige.

So, actually, Bumly is wrong. Once again a conservative is offering a useless solution to a non-existent problem. Fancy that.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

The Civil Service who actually do the job? How many hours does an MP actually work? Friday is surgery day, but at any one time, how many are in the House of Commons?

I'm not actually campaigning for MPs to be paid more.

I'm just pointing out making comparisons to a role that as [MENTION=1200]Harry Wilson's tackle[/MENTION] out is nuanced with many factors really. I don't think it is a role you can equate either to the poorest, or say in the civil service or local authority as I did by way of argument.

I don't really know how much work they do. I've met Peter Kyle a couple of times, he'd literally got off a plane from some sort of trade expo or something and come straight from Gatwick with his suitcase to make a Governor presentation at a school in Portslade at 7pm. I mean, that might be a one off, but he looked exhausted. I think some of them work their arse off. Others, probably less so...

 

[Hotchilidog]

I'm no fan of the man, but he doesn't say that at all, does he?

The article covers his comments regarding other MPs, not himself...

Although he said he currently is not struggling financially, he believes the situation is ‘desperately difficult’ for his newer colleagues.

The Worthing West, in West Sussex representive added: ‘I don’t know how they manage. It’s really grim.’​

I think a case could be made for better pay for MPs, if we believed it would attract a better calibre of person into the field of politics, but it's still difficult to understand how, in most areas of the country, c£82k (plus expenses) won't allow a reasonable standard of living.

The motivation for being an MP should be public service not money. In a week when cuts of £1000 a year (that he voted for) are imposed on those in most dire need (many of whom are actually bloody working!) Bottomley can stick his plea for sympathy where sun does not shine.

There are many workers on far less than £82k (plus office expenses) who have less job security than five years. An MPs job more often than not opens doors to future employment in the private sector for those more concerned with securing their future rather than pursuing the interests of their constituents.

 

[The Clamp]

It's quite amusing seeing how many people are dead set against workers at the bottom end finally getting decent wage increases now the supply of endless imported cheap labour has gone. I'm sure they always thought about inflationary pressures when they were feathering there own nests ...

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Because there is absolutely no evidence that this is happening. A few companies have offered joining bonuses which really doesn’t come anywhere near the benefits of a decent starting wage.

Obviously this spin appeals to those who aren’t keen on foreigners but to sensible people, it offers little compensation.

 

[beorhthelm]

I think a case could be made for better pay for MPs, if we believed it would attract a better calibre of person into the field of politics, but it's still difficult to understand how, in most areas of the country, c£82k (plus expenses) won't allow a reasonable standard of living.

there might be, just not one that starts with suggestion £82k doesnt give a decent standard of living.

 

[Chicken Run]

Because there is absolutely no evidence that this is happening. A few companies have offered joining bonuses which really doesn’t come anywhere near the benefits of a decent starting wage.

Obviously this spin appeals to those who aren’t keen on foreigners but to sensible people, it offers little compensation.

My daughter (17) is working part time in retail alongside her college studies, she was given £8.91 straight away, no way they would offer that a couple of years ago [emoji106]


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[The Clamp]

My daughter (17) is working part time in retail alongside her college studies, she was given £8.91 straight away, no way they would offer that a couple of years ago [emoji106]


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£8.91 is the living wage for under 18’s. Most retail stores have the paid living wage (I think about 50p more than min wage, perhaps more for under 18’s) since it was recommended about five years ago. To whatever rate was recommended at the time. That has been standard since before freedom of movement was abolished.

 

[Chicken Run]

£8.91 is the living wage. Most retail stores have the paid living wage (I think about 50p more than min wage, perhaps more for under 17’s) since it was recommended about five years ago. To whatever rate was recommended at the time. That has been standard since before freedom of movement was abolished.

Let’s fact check this Clamp….

https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates


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[The Clamp]

Let’s fact check this Clamp….

https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates


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Blimey! £4.62 for under 18’s? That’s very low. I had not idea it was so low.

Supposedly, Boris Johnson is putting up min wage to take affect next April which will will overtake the rate I’m currently on so in that sense, there is a positive for me and many others. Slightly offset by tax increases. But I should still come out up.
I remain open minded when it comes to pay and will monitor the situation. Let’s hope he sticks to his word. If he is citing increased wages as a bonus of ending free movement, he needs to ensure that this now happens.
Your daughters’ starting wage is encouraging, I’ll admit that for sure.

 

[rippleman]

There was nothing to stop any government from raising the minimum wages.

And, in the meantime, Sir Peter Bottomly, is grizzling that he can’t manage on £82K per annum, and wants MPs to have a wage rise.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/10/06/tory...-81k-a-year-can-be-really-grim-15371935/amp/?

Bottomley is a lazy, rude and incompetent individual. He does nothing because he knows he doesn't have to. West Worthing would elect a pig wearing a blue rosette.

Poor man not being able to scrape by on 82K a year. My heart bleeds for the greedy *******.