Conservative MP defects to UKIP

[Captain Sensible]

Right wing loon defects to right wing loony party. Sorry but where is the story here? Most ukip morons want damage to Cameron's government, so do Labour. So it's a win win for anyone other than a Tory. Boohoo who cares?

 

[stripeyshark]

do people seriously want to leave the EU or believe it is a good idea? i really hope we do not get granted a referendum otherwise short sighted ignorant protectionism might prevail.

Nice to know you're anti-democracy.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

sometimes you have to let the experts make the decisions, the politicians are better informed than the general public many of whom buy in to the scaremongering and propaganda that UKIP spouts. democracy does not guarantee a smart decision, after all the Nazi's were elected through democratic means, in England we had the Khaki and Coupon elections which were fought on protectionist, anti-alien and jingoist grounds that play on the lack of knowledge of the public and rally them behind cheap campaign calls that are effective but foment xenophobia and prey on ignorance. Democracy has limits, we elect politicians to make educated choices that they know far more about so we should let them exercise the powers we have given them.

Nice swerve of the point ! It was the experts that said we were doomed if we didn't join the Euro. Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland and Cyprus might well suggest that our so called experts are absolute pillocks. Now those same experts are suggesting we're doomed if we leave the EU yet people like you want to believe them .... again.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

I know looks can be deceptive, but looking at Farage and Carswell together, it's difficult not to laugh

 

[Baldseagull]

it isn't an imagine it is only a negative outcome on the cards. in the long-term the large foreign banks will progressively shift from the London to Frankfurt, the city of london is the heart of our economy, many foreign banks hold offices in London so that they can register as a uk company and fall under our laws, american companies like the benefits of being based in London and trading with Europe. China is already in the process of moving to Frankfurt, in the last decade the gap between Frankfurt and London has been reduced but there is no guarantee they would or will overtake for at least a couple of decades yet, however leaving the EU would have grave ramifications and give a decisive shift to kill off competition from the London Stock Exchange. Our trade with Europe in general would drop due to the introduction of Tariffs, countries have already resented us owing to our non committal stance, you cannot quantify the benefits of being in the EU because we all experience them, you cannot do what UKIP tries to do and suggest it is a cash for cash swap membership where we lose out. The fee we give to be a member is minimal, and even if it was more the fact is we should be giving money to help less fortunate nations as we are a country built upon exploitation of those who are less fortunate. We need to be taking down borders rather than putting them up, and that is why i fear Scotland leaving, it will only aid the advance of nationalism, less cultural contact breeds racism that UKIP can exploit, a party run by fools, biggots that preys on those less well informed, it is always easy to float the anti-EU issue in a time of economic difficulty and to turn the public against the alien element in society.

You have made some large assumptions there mate. Much of your argument was offered before as the reasons why we must join the Euro. Their are many other countries outside the European Union that do not have tarriffs on their imports into the EU, there is a cost and a deal would have to made, but based on existing arrangements the EU has, it would be far below the contribution we make currently to the EU. If helping poorer nations is a moral obligation, then the EU is not the club for you, the tariffs imposed make life hard for poorer nations outside the EU.
The belief that anyone anti EU is a bigot, or is less well informed, is rather bigoted.

 

[CheeseRolls]

I thought Carswell spoke well and with conviction and I can't really question his motives, when he could have stayed in a safe Tory seat and was looking safe for another term. For UKIP this is clearly a big step up from Neil Hamilton and it does give them an excellent shot at entering Westminster. The by election thing makes perfect sense, as he can get elected first on a protest/local vote, whereas waiting for the general election, could see him squeezed out by national issues.

If they can somehow attract 4-5 more, they could do some real damage.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

The rot started with the single currency from the first day it was introduced. The only country who has benefited the most from being a member of the EU is possibly Poland and Romania who joined later. It must be fantastic to be able to head to other countries and earn 6-7 times as much in wages, earn a months salary just through benefits of the host country, who can blame them. Is it any wonder why they are so pro EU. It makes me laugh when their own politicians call us racists, when Poland has had hardly any immigration itself and their own standards of living have increased dramatically because of the money their people can earn here and send home.

Italy and Greece on top of their own financial problems, all they are getting for their membership is a steady stream of Non EU migrants camping out on their streets, the goal, get to the UK, and other countries in Northern Europe because things are so crap. When the numbers get out of control here, the EU masters will probably have to give them a passport because you can't leave these people on the street. They will all be on the trains, ferries, planes heading to the UK. It's why our own governments cannot control the numbers now, it's why by 2027 we will have 70 million + people living in the UK, we have a gaping hole in our borders and nobody is doing anything about it because of the stupid EU rules. Farage is again right, the door is open.

The sooner we get out of the EU or get reform, the sooner we get control of our own borders, it's as simple as that. We can start getting back to an EU we all used to love and recognise. In it's current state it is doomed. I hate it like a lot of other people.

 

[virtual22]

do people seriously want to leave the EU or believe it is a good idea? i really hope we do not get granted a referendum otherwise short sighted ignorant protectionism might prevail.

Doesn't matter either way, the fact is what was originally signed up for 40 years ago is way different from what we have today and not since that time has the British public (generations) had a say on whether or not we are happy with this or not. Allegedly we live in a "democracy" but I believe we are the only member of the EU that has not had at least one referendum on some aspect of Europe in that time.

Politicians either need to confirm what we all know, "it's not really a democracy where the will of the people is most important, we will decide what's right for you and you'll deal with it", or give us a say so they can continue to believe we are actually a democracy.

 

[gregbrighton]

So, if things are so bad, why hasn't the Tories done anything in power?

 

[JJ McClure]

Exactly the same crap was spouted back in late 1999 when we opted out of joining the euro, 14 years on & the city's still going strong despite the doom merchants.

You have made some large assumptions there mate. Much of your argument was offered before as the reasons why we must join the Euro.

In / Out of the Euro and In / Out of the EU are two very different thing though and negative ramifications are much more likely to happen with the latter.

From my point of view, UKIP's all out policy is just as bad as the Lib Dem's all in policy. CMD is actually talking sense when he talks of remaining in the EU on renegotiated terms...other than the fact that there's no chance he'll be able to deliver on it.

 

[L2MidgetGem B.H.A Seagull]

Both joke parties.

 

[CheeseRolls]

The rot started with the single currency from the first day it was introduced. The only country who has benefited the most from being a member of the EU is possibly Poland and Romania who joined later. It must be fantastic to be able to head to other countries and earn 6-7 times as much in wages, earn a months salary just through benefits of the host country, who can blame them. Is it any wonder why they are so pro EU. It makes me laugh when their own politicians call us racists, when Poland has had hardly any immigration itself and their own standards of living have increased dramatically because of the money their people can earn here and send home.

Italy and Greece on top of their own financial problems, all they are getting for their membership is a steady stream of Non EU migrants camping out on their streets, the goal, get to the UK, and other countries in Northern Europe because things are so crap. When the numbers get out of control here, the EU masters will probably have to give them a passport because you can't leave these people on the street. They will all be on the trains, ferries, planes heading to the UK. It's why our own governments cannot control the numbers now, it's why by 2027 we will have 70 million + people living in the UK, we have a gaping hole in our borders and nobody is doing anything about it because of the stupid EU rules. Farage is again right, the door is open.

The sooner we get out of the EU or get reform, the sooner we get control of our own borders, it's as simple as that. We can start getting back to an EU we all used to love and recognise. In it's current state it is doomed. I hate it like a lot of other people.

I don't know bash, I think the Germans might have done quite well out of it.

I did some work in Krakow last year, which I enjoyed and I received details of a 12 month contract working in Wroclaw this week. Rural Poland appears to be bumbling along, but cities like Krakow are thriving. IT outsource companies are everywhere, as this is a large young well educated work force.

 

[LamieRobertson]

I thought Carswell spoke well and with conviction and I can't really question his motives, when he could have stayed in a safe Tory seat and was looking safe for another term. For UKIP this is clearly a big step up from Neil Hamilton and it does give them an excellent shot at entering Westminster. The by election thing makes perfect sense, as he can get elected first on a protest/local vote, whereas waiting for the general election, could see him squeezed out by national issues.

If they can somehow attract 4-5 more, they could do some real damage.

Lol...have a look at what he said in January this year...they guy seems as much a hypocrite as a lot of them......I don't think the guy who was lined up to fight the seat for UKIP previously is too happy

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I don't know bash, I think the Germans might have done quite well out of it.

I did some work in Krakow last year, which I enjoyed and I received details of a 12 month contract working in Wroclaw this week. Rural Poland appears to be bumbling along, but cities like Krakow are thriving. IT outsource companies are everywhere, as this is a large young well educated work force.

Do you think the UK has done well out of it?, because on a personal note I think we just bumble along and everywhere gets busier. Can't see the point of it.

 

[CheeseRolls]

Lol...have a look at what he said in January this year...they guy seems as much a hypocrite as a lot of them......I don't think the guy who was lined up to fight the seat for UKIP previously is too happy

I just don't subscribe to the argument that they are all as bad as each other. It is repeated far too often and frankly I think it is a lazy point of view. The net result is some really twisted individuals are not placed under the scrutiny that their behaviour deserves, because they are all hypocrites the lot of them.

 

[beorhthelm]

Do you think the UK has done well out of it?

to answer that, you'd need to define "it". EEC, EU or Euro, because these get merged together when they have had different impacts countries involved. i read only yesterday that the Euro hasn't meaningfully increased internal trade within the euro zone.

 

[LamieRobertson]

I just don't subscribe to the argument that they are all as bad as each other. It is repeated far too often and frankly I think it is a lazy point of view. The net result is some really twisted individuals are not placed under the scrutiny that their behaviour deserves, because they are all hypocrites the lot of them.

Didn't say all..just a lot...i listened to his speech yesterday and he just seemed a bit too full of himself....watched him with Farage and sorry not impressed......maybe i should of qualified ''a lot' with quite a few....

 

[Deleted member 22389]

to answer that, you'd need to define "it". EEC, EU or Euro, because these get merged together when they have had different impacts countries involved. i read only yesterday that the Euro hasn't meaningfully increased internal trade within the euro zone.

Actually you make a good point it is all banded together, so my question would be, we keep being told immigration is good for the economy, when they say good I take that to mean everyone should be benefitting from it. In your own personal view has increased immigration improved your own life, what have you got out of it

 

[Surf's Up]

The lunatics are assembling in the asylum.

 

[piersa]

sometimes you have to let the experts make the decisions, the politicians are better informed than the general public many of whom buy in to the scaremongering and propaganda that UKIP spouts. democracy does not guarantee a smart decision, after all the Nazi's were elected through democratic means, in England we had the Khaki and Coupon elections which were fought on protectionist, anti-alien and jingoist grounds that play on the lack of knowledge of the public and rally them behind cheap campaign calls that are effective but foment xenophobia and prey on ignorance. Democracy has limits, we elect politicians to make educated choices that they know far more about so we should let them exercise the powers we have given them.

This is a good post, but how many MPs are actually qualified to do the job they are in office to do?