[Football] Collymore calls Ian Wright a 'Tom' after latest race issues interview

[sussex_guy2k2]

Another section from this interview that has stirred things up...

'To be a black pundit you either need to be a comedian like Chris Kamara or Ian Wright – guys who have big pearly-white smiles and everyone loves laughing at – or Jermaine Jenas and Alex Scott, who are completely inoffensive,' he says. 'What you’re not allowed to do is call out the status quo, which is what I do.

'Opportunities have been denied to me and it’s got nothing to with what happened with Ulrika Jonsson because I’ve worked since then. No, it’s because I’ve become increasingly outspoken and that’s not allowed in this country if you’re not white.'

Being outspoken is frowned upon if you’re white too...

And what is a Tom? I’ve genuinely never heard of this as a racist term

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Will there ever come a time I wonder when different shades and pigment of skin colour don't require labels. Wishful thinking I suspect.

Unlikely. But actually that’s predominantly coming from black culture in modern society. You can’t have a typically black song without the word Ni**er at least 10 times, for example.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Unlikely. But actually that’s predominantly coming from black culture in modern society. You can’t have a typically black song without the word Ni**er at least 10 times, for example.

Totally unacceptable and should be roundly villified. Its disgusting, arrogant and deliberate.

 

[Chicken Run]

Being outspoken is frowned upon if you’re white too...

And what is a Tom? I’ve genuinely never heard of this as a racist term

I found the below, not sure how accurate?

US
(of a black person) behave in an excessively obedient or servile way.
"it was insulting to hold out my hand and have a clerk bang the money down—I'd tommed again"

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Will there ever come a time I wonder when different shades and pigment of skin colour don't require labels. Wishful thinking I suspect.

Not before we destroy ourselves, which, in the whole scheme of things, won't be that far away.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

I found the below, not sure how accurate?

US
(of a black person) behave in an excessively obedient or servile way.
"it was insulting to hold out my hand and have a clerk bang the money down—I'd tommed again"

Came across a pub in Cookham ( Berks ) a while back called ' Uncle Tom's Cabin ' and it did feature a black man on the sign. Next time I am out that way I will check whether its still there ( or has been re-named! )

 

[Mo Gosfield]

An intelligent reply. Most people know the current description is ‘mixed race’ but don’t get complacent because that’ll be up for review soon enough. Maybe it’s already moved on and an old racist like me has missed it.

Blimey, give me a chance. I'm still trying to move from ' half-caste ' to ' mixed race '

 

[Bakero]

Can't you read? I never said it was, just that there was a long time between '******' becoming unacceptable and 'half cast' becoming unacceptable. One word (or phrase) stayed around in common parlance longer than the other.

There, I've quoted the N word now - enough to have you frothing at the mouth yet?

Waits with baited breath for an outraged person to fly into a rage with a furious response. Please specify on whose behalf you are being outraged...................














Just for the record, I don't, nor would I ever dream of doing so, refer to anybody as ****** or half cast. Totally unacceptable, and quite rightly so. History sometimes has to be explained, though, and those words were once in common usage.

You seem to be the furious one. By the way, it's bated breath.

 

[bravohotelalpha]

Blimey, give me a chance. I'm still trying to move from ' half-caste ' to ' mixed race '

Dual heritage

 

[dazzer6666]

If you’re referring to the night he slapped Ulriks Johnson - the silly drunken bint - who was ridiculing him with a load of Jocks then at least he’s done one good thing.

Seriously ??

 

[Tooting Gull]

I wonder how much of the response to this is because it's Collymore, how much is because he disparaged one of ours, and how much is just people don't like it when someone brings up inequality (it political correctness gone mad, init?!)?

How long do BAME people have to wait? It's not like racial equality in football management is something that has only just come under the spotlight since the introduction of VAR technology. Ron Atkinson was fired in 2004. Kick It Out was founded in 1993. How much have things moved on since then for black managers and coaches? It's been an issue for a while now, and we're not seeing much advancement.

Getting a job on TV or Football management isn't the same thing, obviously, but the right to vote wasn't just handed down because one or two women were trusted with the vote and they kept their heads down, voted with dignity, didn't draw attention to themselves, didn't upset the establishment (men). Civil rights weren't bestowed upon black men and women because one or two got them and were deemed ok by the rest of society. Changes aren't made by people 'not kicking up a fuss'. The status quo doesn't get disrupted by 'getting on with the job' 'conducting yourself with dignity'. It gets disrupted by protests, and people disturbing horse races with sacrificial actions, it's causing a fuss and offending. It is jumping up and down and screaming 'look! there's something that might need to change over here!'

Look at how many management vacancies there have been in the last ten years - how many have gone to BAME managers? How long do people have to wait patiently, sit down quietly with dignity, and not kick up a fuss? Is it a little bit longer because people don't like the current person kicking up a fuss?


EDIT: Just in case I need to clarify for anyone, no, I'm not advocating riots or protests or throwing oneself to their death in the middle of a grand national just to get another black manager in the league. But, this 'sit down, shut up, and wait for change' attitude doesn't sit well with me. Sometimes change needs people to call for it to come.

I agree with a lot of that, and I find it a shame that the argument is being made by Collymore and Campbell (as someone else has put it earlier, two 'egotistical, confrontational weirdos') rather than say Chris Powell, who is not only a good coach/manager but a lot better an ambassador.

Also let's not forget that a lot of former black players. as with former white players, are currently going for the 'easy money' in the media rather than the much tougher gig as a coach and manager. So it's not all about rejection, in some cases it's their career choices (eg Jenas, Dublin). I hope the recent moves by Lampard and Gerrard may start to redress that a bit.

 

[carlzeiss]

Dual heritage

Why can't all folks be classified as either BAME , Part BAME or Non BAME .

 

[Tooting Gull]

I happen to agree with Collymore that a version of the Rooney Rule should be in play for all coaching vacancies at professional clubs in the UK, just to give owners and directors exposure to other possibilities. CH himself admitted that he had not interviewed any BAME coaches when Calderwood left but just called his old mate Paul Trollope. It's that old pals' network that may be preventing black coaches even getting a foot in the door.

On the subject of Sol Campbell - yes, he comes across as a jerk with a colossal sense of entitlement, but he has a Pro Licence - unlike Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard - and might justifiably feel that he should at least be getting interviews. Under a Rooney Rule, he probably would. Perhaps he wouldn't impress potential employers, but he'd have a chance to do so, and that's all any of us ask, surely.

There are limits though. I don't need to know whether Kim Jong Un has a Pro Licence - I wouldn't interview him for the Brighton job. Sol Campbell's problem is that he is offered a huge media platform, vastly bigger than any other potential, wanna-be manager black or white. And every time he opens his mouth on that platform, he comes over like a total bellend. He is sabotaging his own chances.

 

[Brovion]

Dual heritage

A term that came and quickly went as it made no allowance for people with multiple heritages.

It is a little bit sad though that people get so hung up on terminology (Mixed race, biracial, dual heritage etc). I remember watching an interview once with an old black American. He said: "When I was born I was a negro. Then I was colored. Then I was black. Now I'm an African-American. God knows what I'll be next year but I'll tell you this: white folk are still white and they're still in power."

 

[wellquickwoody]

Will there ever come a time I wonder when different shades and pigment of skin colour don't require labels. Wishful thinking I suspect.

When you need/wish to describe people visually then yes, wishful thinking.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I doubt Collymore has ever read Uncle Tom's Cabin. Same as all the other idiots who use it as an insult when in fact Tom was the hero of the tale.

 

[beorhthelm]

On the subject of Sol Campbell - yes, he comes across as a jerk with a colossal sense of entitlement, but he has a Pro Licence - unlike Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard - and might justifiably feel that he should at least be getting interviews. Under a Rooney Rule, he probably would. Perhaps he wouldn't impress potential employers, but he'd have a chance to do so, and that's all any of us ask, surely.

i read that Campbell is still working on his badge, as are the other two.

 

[Triggaaar]

No it didn't - it was around in common parlance (and generally thought to be OK) a lot later. About fifteen/twenty years I reckon.

I'm sure I knew it wasn't ok a lot longer ago than that.

 

[Wilko]

With respect, "half-caste" was possibly THE most commonly used term to describe a mixed race person until very recently. Particularly older generations can be forgiven for thinking it is still acceptable - especially considering most people won't know (without a quick googling) why exactly it is now regarded as offensive.

The best thing you can do when someone uses this term is to politely inform them that it is unacceptable, rather than suggesting they are racist. When they ask "why's that then?", simply explain how "caste" comes from the Latin 'castus' meaning 'pure' and there are historic implications that it is the 'white race' that is being described as pure with its usage, consequently suggesting that the 'black race' is somehow impure.

It is of course an unacceptable term, but let's not get on our high horses branding people racists. It is difficult to keep up with what's offensive and what's not these days.

Well said. I remember when Alan Hansen got huuuugggeee abuse for using the word 'coloured' instead of black, people were hounding him as racist. Ridiculous, his comment actually was that he wished there were more coloured managers in the game. All that needed to be said was that the term is a little outdated now, not hound him as a racist.

 

[Nixonator]

With respect, "half-caste" was possibly THE most commonly used term to describe a mixed race person until very recently. Particularly older generations can be forgiven for thinking it is still acceptable - especially considering most people won't know (without a quick googling) why exactly it is now regarded as offensive.

The best thing you can do when someone uses this term is to politely inform them that it is unacceptable, rather than suggesting they are racist. When they ask "why's that then?", simply explain how "caste" comes from the Latin 'castus' meaning 'pure' and there are historic implications that it is the 'white race' that is being described as pure with its usage, consequently suggesting that the 'black race' is somehow impure.

It is of course an unacceptable term, but let's not get on our high horses branding people racists. It is difficult to keep up with what's offensive and what's not these days.

Never throw sense into a bit of outrage.