[Football] Coincidental (?) Potterish Things

[Paxton Dazo]

So are you dropping a World Cup winner or the guy from Ecuador who is going to win the Ballon D'Or?

Absolutely no idea to be honest.

 

[Me and my Monkey]

Only on a football forum (or the letters pages of the Argus, Metro, etc.) do members of the public get the chance to imitate politicians with equanimity in their quest to use confirmation bias to create a narrative.

We do not (and can never) know whether our progress under Hughton would have been quicker or more enjoyable under Potter. We do not (and can never) know whether we will have done better, sooner under De Zerbi than under Potter.

What we do know is that despite all expectations, we did not drop out of the EPL at the end of our first season. Or our second.....and now in our sixth season, we have never yet been in the bottom three. Brighton and Hove Albion. I didn't see any of that coming.

Something seems to be working. For now. So I think I'd be hard-pressed to identify any one individual in the management teams as being a 'fraud' who overstayed their welcome till turfed out, or a 'fraud' who ran away (before being turfed out) in pursuit of another club's shiny shilling. Instead we have had an owner who has made bold decisions when he felt it appropriate, has responded well to unexpected events, and so far it has worked out well for the club.

Admittedly, some of the supporters think we should of been in Europe and won a trophy by now, if only we hadn't been let down the the owner refusing to buy a striker, and poor management by our poor managers.

For me, Tony Bloom is the owner, and Roberto De Zerbi is our manager. Happy with that.

Not sure this is the right thread for pragmatism and reasonableness. But yes, I suppose.




PS - Potter's a tit, Chelsea are vile, and I hope they both fail.

 

[Justice]

RDZ has changed the mindset of our club, Brighton are a big club No? Loved that. Every time Potter failed to beat one of the bottom sides he reverted to type with history lessons and all that old bollocks about how dare we moan after winning one home game in a year.

 

[1066familyman]

3 more games on this form and it will be goodbye Potter.

Why?

Completely different club owner there now.
Baffles me why so many people still don't seem to have noticed.

 

[1066familyman]

Some of the comments, mostly from those who were slagging Potter off during most of his tenure here until they looked mugs in his last six months. He was a money grabbing Judas for leaving and I also enjoy seeing Chelsea lose but that cannot take away what he did when he was here imo

Seems some want to paint a picture of a pretty useless manager, that is distasteful as well as stupid to me

Well said!

Totally agree.

 

[Badger Boy]

Why?

Completely different club owner there now.
Baffles me why so many people still don't seem to have noticed.

It remains to be seen whether he'll hire and fire at will in the same way or not. I think what goes in Potter's favour is the use of the younger players, admittedly that's been forced upon him with the incredible number of injuries they have. Boehly has spoken (whether it's all hot air or not remains to be seen) about attracting the best young talent and developing them into the first team to avoid having to spend huge amounts of money in every transfer window (and given FFP rules and their spending over the last several windows, they probably won't be able to keep splashing such huge cash). Whether any of it is true or not remains to be seen but in theory, Potter is the right man for the longer term ambition. Where he does need to improve is getting results in the shorter term, losing 1-0 to a full strength Man City isn't really a problem when you look at the team Chelsea had out but they have to start winning or Boehly will feel pressure from the fans to act. Especially if he then decides to bring back a fan legend who also has spoken about his desire to develop younger players in Frank Lampard...

 

[Stato]

What we do know is that despite all expectations, we did not drop out of the EPL at the end of our first season. Or our second.....and now in our sixth season, we have never yet been in the bottom three. Brighton and Hove Albion. I didn't see any of that coming.

We've never been in the bottom three at the end of the season, but we were in the bottom three after our second ever game in the new division. We were 18th after losing 2-0 to both Man City and Leicester. We were still above Frank de Boer's Palace though.

Potter is a process manager and his methods take time and patience. He improved players here and he will improve players at Chelsea, if they are willing to hold their nerve. The new round of cash splashing in January could be the first signs of their new recruitment team's methods, but the reported hijacking of Arsenal's bid for Mudryk doesn't smell of a new approach. Potter's future was and remains dependent upon whether Boehly is true to his word about wanting to do things differently.

Posters looking for coincidences between us under Potter and Chelsea under Potter will find them because they want to find them. However, with such a small sample size to make comparisons, they don't mean very much. I find myself conflicted. As a football fan, I want clubs to have reliable ownership and stable management that wants to play football in the right way, so personal feelings aside, I should want Boehly to be true to his word and Potter to be given the chance to build things in the right way. As a Brighton fan, it's more convenient to our ambitions if one of the richest clubs in the country continues to be a bit of basket case. I don't really have a dog in the fight though. I don't despise Chelsea any more than I despise the rest of the failed Superleague six (and their new friends in the North).

I don't hope for the failure of our departees on a personal level. The way they left hurt, but less than the arrogant way that Poyet left and I still look back very fondly on his time as our manager. If things continue to go well, De Zerbi will be off one day as well. That's the nature of our position in the food chain. So long as we keep the bloke who funds and put in place the structure that finds these managers and players, we'll be enjoying our own fantastic ride and whether our exes flourish will only be of minor interest.

 

[1066familyman]

It remains to be seen whether he'll hire and fire at will in the same way or not. I think what goes in Potter's favour is the use of the younger players, admittedly that's been forced upon him with the incredible number of injuries they have. Boehly has spoken (whether it's all hot air or not remains to be seen) about attracting the best young talent and developing them into the first team to avoid having to spend huge amounts of money in every transfer window (and given FFP rules and their spending over the last several windows, they probably won't be able to keep splashing such huge cash). Whether any of it is true or not remains to be seen but in theory, Potter is the right man for the longer term ambition. Where he does need to improve is getting results in the shorter term, losing 1-0 to a full strength Man City isn't really a problem when you look at the team Chelsea had out but they have to start winning or Boehly will feel pressure from the fans to act. Especially if he then decides to bring back a fan legend who also has spoken about his desire to develop younger players in Frank Lampard...

Exactly!

Yet so many people talk as though the previous owner is still on seat there.

It's like they're not paying any attention at all.

Just skim reading reveals that this new bloke has a history of building teams and keeping managers for the long term. Only time will tell if he'll also use that model at Chelsea.

 

[pocketseagull]

keeping managers for the long term

Have you seen the record of the manager who's been in place for years?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Completely switching position in the "GP is a fraud vs GP is a good manager" for the fourth time. Must be easy to always follow the direction of the wind.

Little doubt that he changed how we played for the better and developed a few players well to get good money for them but he's never, ever been a consistent results getter and his teams all seem to have problems scoring, especially when he first starts. He flatters to deceive when it comes to the most important of football things, scoring goals and winning games. No wonder he took the pot of gold during the one period in his career when his team were actually doing so.

And, yes, it was frustrating to lose him just when it looked like everything had clicked, but it's pretty clear already that De Zerbi is a far better coach for this football club.

 

[Barnet Seagull]

Potter did many things right and that got us to a comfortable position in the Premier League. He was able to create tactically flexible and intelligent players over a period of time. His challenge at Chelsea is that his team have talent but in a few cases little tactical intelligence. He's also inherited a lot of sticking plaster players e.g. Auba.

Football is all about the control of space. Whilst GP was with us we were extremely well coached defensively and sacrificed in attack because of it, often allowing teams to get back into shape defensively. I was forever bemoaning the speed or our transitions as a source of frustration and the final piece of the puzzle to unlock teams.
With RDZ, his approach to space is very different and he is willing to accept significantly more defensive risk in order to exploit fast transitions. He invites the press. We will lose some and win some with this approach, but it's a bit more fun, no?

Chelsea won't lose many and they will improve under GP provided they "buy in". The issue is whether as we've consistently said since he left, he gets the time and support. I'm sure however the Chelsea fans will be looking enviously at the fun we're having down the road regardless. Good.

 

[Stato]

And, yes, it was frustrating to lose him just when it looked like everything had clicked, but it's pretty clear already that De Zerbi is a far better coach for this football club.

De Zerbi seems a great fit now. He may not have been what we needed after Hughton left. Potter came in at a point when we were favourites for relegation and was asked to completely change the way we played football. Most experts thought that the players he had couldn't play the way he asked them to. He helped lay foundations that De Zerbi is hopefully going to continue to build on.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Little doubt that he changed how we played for the better and developed a few players well to get good money for them but he's never, ever been a consistent results getter and his teams all seem to have problems scoring, especially when he first starts. He flatters to deceive when it comes to the most important of football things, scoring goals and winning games. No wonder he took the pot of gold during the one period in his career when his team were actually doing so.

And, yes, it was frustrating to lose him just when it looked like everything had clicked, but it's pretty clear already that De Zerbi is a far better coach for this football club.

Swansea scored 65 goals in his season there, given the fire sale they went through, it was impressive. The following season in which you seem to hold up as evidence of Cooper doing much better they scored 63.

Hughton got 34 then 35 goals, Potter followed that with 39, 40 and 42. Don't think anyone would dispute we missed far too many gilt edge chances as every stat will tell you, wasn't like we didn't create.

What would Monty Python say.......other than the injuries he created, the lack of goals, the lack of wins, don't forget lack of charisma, oh yeah Reg, lack of charisma, the prickly response to the odd boo...boooooo....what has Graham Potter ever done for us?

 

[AlbionBro]

It seems a bit odd that people are running down Graham, it's this fickle side of fans that is very peculiar, it makes me wonder whether they are just angry people in general.
I think Graham is just testing his squad hard mentally and physically so he can develop those that are capable of his systems.Good luck to him.

 

[phoenix]

So are you dropping a World Cup winner or the guy from Ecuador who is going to win the Ballon D'Or?

Obviously not, just warming the bench for injuries,suspensions.

 

[Brok]

It seems a bit odd that people are running down Graham, it's this fickle side of fans that is very peculiar, it makes me wonder whether they are just angry people in general.
I think Graham is just testing his squad hard mentally and physically so he can develop those that are capable of his systems.Good luck to him.

Nah... f*** him.

 

[brightn'ove]

Hughton got 34 then 35 goals, Potter followed that with 39, 40 and 42.

Oh blimey, we're already close to beating these.

Ohhh bobby de zerbi

 

[e77]

Up to and including the point Potter left - so putting RDZ to one side - he was the most successful manager in BHAFC history. Admittedly to get to that stage he had to be supported by Bloom through some of the less successful stages (which he might not from other Chairman) and he had access to the back room data and recruitment.

Be as appalled as you like about the method of his departure but please don't reinvent history.

 

[Swansman]

Little doubt that he changed how we played for the better and developed a few players well to get good money for them but he's never, ever been a consistent results getter and his teams all seem to have problems scoring, especially when he first starts. He flatters to deceive when it comes to the most important of football things, scoring goals and winning games. No wonder he took the pot of gold during the one period in his career when his team were actually doing so.

And, yes, it was frustrating to lose him just when it looked like everything had clicked, but it's pretty clear already that De Zerbi is a far better coach for this football club.

The reason Brighton didn't win a lot of games wasn't because the manager was shit, but because the team was shit.

This is why Sean Dyche failed to win consistently. This is why Chris Hughton failed to win consistently. You can't win consistently in the Premier League if you don't have players good enough to win consistently in the Premier League.

 

[Swansman]

Some of the comments, mostly from those who were slagging Potter off during most of his tenure here until they looked mugs in his last six months. He was a money grabbing Judas for leaving and I also enjoy seeing Chelsea lose but that cannot take away what he did when he was here imo

Seems some want to paint a picture of a pretty useless manager, that is distasteful as well as stupid to me

Small-club mentality. In big clubs, people who made a good job are recognised as such and remain praised long after they leave. It creates a culture where people give their all to the club, because they know it will be remembered and appreciated for a long while. Rewarding good work is one of the differences between the winners and losers.
Mind, it is clear that this thread was created by the most fickle of fickle human beings and it is good to see not everyone shares his view.