Coaching set up of development squad

[Gwylan]

saying that Arsenals U21s are good but not many have come through the ranks

Which is the point I was trying to make on the other thread. It's all very well saying we don't bring many people through but how do we compare with other clubs? Has anyone seen any statistics about club academies and a) how many players come through to the first team and b) how many come into league football. I've never seen anything like that and it would be an interesting bit of research.

As I said on the other thread, my guess is that we'd be a pretty middle-of-the-road team but having nothing to back that up

 

[BensGrandad]

I would think Southamptons would come quite high in the ratings

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Youngsters leaving us now are going straight into League 1 teams which shows the level that we are achieving with their development. We have also had two move into the first team which is good going.
Not many teams do develop their youngsters into first team players except perhaps, Southampton.

 

[Munkfish]

Not through to the Arsenal first team ranks perhaps, but they have brought through decent Championship standard players, like Afobe and Akpom (though presumably the Arsenal equivalent of NSC will be decrying those as failures).

Berillin, Cocquallin and Gibbs all in the first team squad as well as Gnabry. Not too bad I guess for a team at the top end of the league.

Spurs have had a lot of success im recent years in bringing players through to the first team.

 

[BensGrandad]

Prior to the new academy we had more get into the first team. Going back we have had Piper, Hinshlewood, Mayo. Elphick Cook Dunk to name just a few.

 

[BensGrandad]

Berillin, Cocquallin and Gibbs all in the first team squad as well as Gnabry. Not too bad I guess for a team at the top end of the league.

Spurs have had a lot of success im recent years in bringing players through to the first team.

None of those started at Arsenal all were with other clubs and Arsenal bought them into the U21s so cannot really be classed as home developed as in the ones I mentioned of ours.

 

[Stat Brother]

Prior to the new academy we had more get into the first team. Going back we have had Piper, Hinshlewood, Mayo. Elphick Cook Dunk to name just a few.

I wasn't aware the Albion had been challenging at the top of the Championship for so long.
Not to mention able to afford to buy in quality players.

If the club was still bouncing around the third and fourth divisions it would be generating more academy players.

It's hardly rocket science, is it?



If Albion fans thought it was tough to filter players into the Championship, Arsenal are looking to generate Champions League players.

 

[Gullflyinghigh]

Prior to the new academy we had more get into the first team. Going back we have had Piper, Hinshlewood, Mayo. Elphick Cook Dunk to name just a few.

I'm not sure you can compare those players with our current crop of youngsters. I suspect that Pre-Bloom it was a fair bit easier to break through.

 

[BensGrandad]

I'm not sure you can compare those players with our current crop of youngsters. I suspect that Pre-Bloom it was a fair bit easier to break through.

Is it not the basic aim of academy players to make the first team irrespective of which division that is similarly the clubs aim is to find first team players from the academy. If this happens it is a successful and worthwhile operation.

 

[ewe2]

I am sure we want the Academy self funding,even in profit,eventually.There needs to be players ready for the senior team,or sold down the chain,with as few as possible,leaving for nothing.

 

[BigGully]

Its not the coaches, its the level of players we currently have, You can't just build a training academy and expect that the first batch of players out of the under 18s will be good enough to step up into the DS Premier league.

The youth team will have been used to player much smaller teams all on their level until very recently, now the gulf in class is fairly clear which should be no surprise which is why we are investing in players to boost our chances of in the next few seasons.

The easiest way to look at it is, Moving a league 2 team into the Prem and expecting success straight away. however blaming the coaches for failing to get league 2 players playing at a Premier league standard.

In addition to this the overall aim for the DS is not to win the league. yes that would be great it would be a benchmark that we are doing something right, but more to develop and bring players into the first team. this is what we should be judging things on and currently they have done pretty well with that, March, Ince and JFC stepping up in recent years. If they continue to push players forward and into the first team they are doing well in my opinion. Even moving players on such as Charlie Harris, Glenn Rea show we are developing players. However this will take time.

Firstly the BHA youth set up has been in existence since 1980 and has never ceased, but has undoubtedly changed.

I really do not think being a Cat 1 club necessarily ensures better outcomes if our development is not excellent, that is being questioned and we cannot be sure, but it is something that needs continued attention.

Its worth noting that the young player recruitment dynamics havent really changed much, the new EPPP makes it a lot easier for young players to move on until they are 16 years old and although the new training centre should help with player retention, ultimately if the few players that might be deemed talented enough to move to an Arsenal, Chelsea or Tottenham then it might not be enough, so arguably those players that perhaps can make a difference in the U21's team and beyond are still lost.

Currently the recruitment policy seems to be driven by the Irish aspect of the Academy manager Moreling CV and some very busy online scouts searching Scandinavia and beyond, so we cannot be sure if Rusk is getting enough time with his charges or he too supports the wider searches.

The problem remains that we are not going to trump the Man Utd's, Liverpool's and Arsenals in Ireland they have a historic base in Ireland we are feeding off the scraps, they may be decent, they may well go on to achieve a career in the game hopefully with Brighton but that will be in main due to support, longer term contracts and staff having a vested interest in those players, although wonderfully helpful and with some success that to me isnt 'nuts and bolts' player development.

For those that care and are waiting for a sudden shift in the Academys fortunes, it might be worth comparing a time without a Cat 1 academy and a far reaching recruitment policy when Martin Hinshelwood, Dean Wilkins, Ian Chapman, John Byrne, Russell Bromage with the help of others were dealing with nearly exclusively Sussex based youngsters and an unprecedented FA Youth Cup quarter final place, now thats quite an impressive group of committed coaches for any 13, 14, 15, 16 year olds, I am not sure we can boast anything close to that at present.

So thats the point, yes a player will go on loan and one or two involved in the first team squad but I am not sure there is anything outstanding happening within our Academy.

 

[Munkfish]

None of those started at Arsenal all were with other clubs and Arsenal bought them into the U21s so cannot really be classed as home developed as in the ones I mentioned of ours.

not even giggs?

So we are now classing players we bring in to the DS develop them into first team players as the acadamey getting lucky.

The equivelents of pens not counting as goals.

 

[BigGully]

not even giggs?

So we are now classing players we bring in to the DS develop them into first team players as the acadamey getting lucky.

The equivelents of pens not counting as goals.

Thats not young player development, thats basically recruitment with progression driven by opportunity, those players we bring that have been released by say a Premiership club have probably been in the Academy system from the age of 9 years old, we cannot then take the credit for their development, we can for their opportunity and progression though, different things.

It kind of invalidates the investment in the academy too, why not hang about as a Cat 2 or 3 and wait for those released by others, as long as the club retains credibility we could recruit the same players and save millions.

 

[Return of the Rev]

Cat 1 gives us the opportunity to pinch players from lesser setups!

 

[BigGully]

Cat 1 gives us the opportunity to pinch players from lesser setups!

No not necessarily, anyone can pinch anyone from anywhere below 16 years old (regulated fee) irrespective of what Cat we might be and although I accept that our training centre perhaps is an insight into the resources and calibre of our club we will still play second fiddle to the bigger clubs.

If the policy is to recruit caste offs from the Premier League Cat 2 can easily employ the same policy, it would be then down to the player and his agents to consider the better option, by 20 years old a player will assess the coaches, the contract, the status of the first team (not academy) and any possible pathway to the first team, the actual category of the training facility weakens the draw, however in most cases the player is just relieved that anyone is interested anyway.