[Albion] Club need to be honest about expectations

[garethjamesuk]

Its great we now got given category 1 status and shows our club is taking the right route and backs up exactly what i stated earlier on here, yes i do want to see us pay tiny bit higher wages and get players we want and need to improve but not if meant our club could get into financial trouble and spiral down the leagues like portsmouth have.
I think some other teams like wigan, forest, middlesboro have to be very careful on the way they spending stupid money on average players, the only reason ive included wigan is they get small crowds and yes they have paracute payments but so did wolves, so did portsmouth and they both have bigger support than both of these, how long can they afford to spend higher wages ?
I also love how the club have learnt from mistakes on losing young talent and now got Ince, Caskey forster, walton, dunk, march all on long term contracts, this shows the club have adapted.
In the transfer market we have been weak selling wise but learnt again with getting good fees for bridcutt and awesome one for Ulloa (but hated nasty comments the guy got off some - he worked his arse off for our club and had a 1 goal every 2 games record, thats awesome, he come over and clapped our fans after the derby game defeat in the playoffs even with all idiot derby fans in his face, that takes guts, he never asked for transfer and he loved our city and club. Appreciate him and thank him for all his goals and the 6 to 8 million profit got on him which will help our club long term and all down to his goals and work rate, please dont insult him as he deserves chance and i will be cheering him every time see him play.)
We now have to learn to up wages offer and fees pay according to players sell, eg using the money got from ulloa to up wages instead of paying big fees would be better long term for us as the wages being upped would have been protected by the fee got for ulloa so its manageable or spending bit of cash, as until our finances start reaping rewards by clever management by bloom, barber we gotta compete as well and it has been too slow getting players in as they learnt some mistakes made and we all make them, but poyet and garcia both complained about lack of backing and hyppia obviousally knows budgets and happy with he just wants some players added that meet our budgets.
But i to end have confidence in bloom, barber that they care for the club and doing whats best for us and if that means this year being midtable fine. just be careful dont ruin all good work with us going down due to under investing.

 

[dazzer6666]

I'd say it works both ways. The club can have expectations but need to have the resources to meet these expectations. The supporters also need to realise that there may be a myriad of reasons why we haven't signed more people; are the people mentioned here and in the press actual targets? What are the reasons that deals aren't done yet? I think supporters have a 'football manager' mentality still - we identify a player, but it doesn't mean he will sign straight away. I'd happily bet that 95% of supporters haven't the first idea on how to run a club, or negotiate a transfer etc, but its all very easy to say what you want from behind a keyboard.

I can't think of many times that the club has been this transparent with the fans (semi-regular videos with TB, PB replying to pointless email after pointless email) but there are some things that we aren't entitled to - such as the inner workings and details surrounding transfers. Having an ST or being a fan for X years doesn't give us any more entitlement. Plunging money into the club might do, but that's exactly the same as any business; football is no different.

The club need to have some semblance of privacy; the more information they put into the public domain the more chance it will be used against them in transfer dealings - its one of the reasons we never publicise our transfer budget and most transfers are 'undisclosed' We just need to have some faith in that they are doing the best for the club. It's fine to have concerns and to air them, as long as they're thought out and not overly reactionary - which is the issue most people have with the negative supporters; their negativity isn't founded in fact or truth, just assumption. Whether that would change with more info from the club, who knows. I doubt that the board would look kindly on a team running the club that weren't doing their job properly...and we have no idea if they are or aren't so most assumptions (both positive and negative) are just that; assumptions.

I'm just planning to enjoy seeing the club evolve with TB at the helm and seeing Sami instil his style of play and bring in some new players as well as seeing the academy begin to work. If it takes us 1 year to reach the Prem or 10, really doesn't bother me. It won't temper my support for the club regardless.

Fabulous post.

 

[The Sock of Poskett]

Fabulous post.

Seconded. We're a long term project, being built the right way so that when we get to the PL we're equipped to stay there.

 

[B.W.]

I suppose we could just go out and get any tom dick or Harry to appease those grumbling about lack of signings or we could wait till prem teams name their squads and see what quality we can get in ! Patience really is difficult isn't it but I for one think we will get decent players in but due to ludicrous transfer window closing a couple weeks after our season starts it might just need fans to be patient and as for missing pre season with us and gelling with team I'm sure whoever comes in will have done a pre season with their own club and playing football is hardly rocket science so confident they can slip straight into team.

Your playing down of good preparation betrays your lack of understanding of our current plight.

 

[B.W.]

Spot on, a fan who talks sense. Think the problem is that some fans on here have higher expectations without looking at the facts, and I am sure that after 3/4 very good years, they want more, fair enough, but said so many times before, FFP, please understand, it is quite simple, our expenditure and expectations should go hand in hand, trouble is that some people on here do not understand that simple fact. It is very apparent that most people are happy with the progress are the old gits like me and the ones who want the Premier dream are the young ones and dare I say the JCL's who have that view, but personally I am not bothered about the holy grail (prem), as I am more than happy watching football is a beautiful stadium and can you tell me of a club that has progressed more in the last 5 years than us ?. Just accept what we have, a wonderful club, with a great chairman and with not a bad team, which will get some more players in to be in a position where we can progress as a club to satisfy the majority of fans who want the ultimate goal.

I'm a long-standing fan. I expect top 6. As targeted again by our chairman. Your simplistic breakdown of our fan base is inaccurate as is the post you describe as talking sense.

 

[B.W.]

I am not aware that the club have been dishonest about their expectations. Please enlighten me if they have.

The problem here is that many people seem to have expectations that are at odds with a club that are refusing to go down the shit or bust route to reach the Premier League.

Here we go again. There is a MASSIVE difference between paying competitive wages for the league you're in ('loosening the purse strings' if you like), and 'sh1t or bust'. Assuming there are only two options you can pursue is just, well, wrong. There is a clear continuum when it comes to player investment.

 

[BobbySmith]

There are obviously exceptions on the break down of fans, but I am feeling the same vibe in my group of 40/60 year olds who have seen it all, good and bad. I would love a top 6 again, but to not expect it or if we did not achieve it, I would still go and enjoy. I find a lot of the younger fans brought up on football of the last few expect more and I understand that, but a lot of us old ones who were at Hereford etc, are more realistic I believe, not all but I know a lot are. Respect your views though.

 

[B.W.]

Best, well thought out, thread I've seen for a long while. Agree with lots of points from different posters......

Hopefully it will remain this way and not turn into a slanging match when someone decides a viewpoint differs dramatically from their own.

One point I would make is that some posters are happy just to play championship football and appear to not want premier league football. For me,that's like having brand new Porsche and not putting petrol in it.

This.

 

[B.W.]

So many bedwetters expecting instant success it really beggars belief.

Amnesia has set in with so many fans these days who forgot the gutter this club had to crawl out of.

Why say 'bedwetters'? Pathetic.

 

[B.W.]

There are obviously exceptions on the break down of fans, but I am feeling the same vibe in my group of 40/60 year olds who have seen it all, good and bad. I would love a top 6 again, but to not expect it or if we did not achieve it, I would still go and enjoy. I find a lot of the younger fans brought up on football of the last few expect more and I understand that, but a lot of us old ones who were at Hereford etc, are more realistic I believe, not all but I know a lot are. Respect your views though.

Thank you for that.


The problem is, as I see it, that many of our fans are fairly new. I will always go to the game regardless. I'm sure you will. But will they? We are already a couple of thousand down on season ticket sales as I understand it. This WILL be partly down to under-investment in the team (as opposed to every other aspect of the club, especially stadium/training infrastructure). The bottom-line is we are in danger of starting a self-inflicted downward spiral - under-invest in team / poor results / less bums on seats / less revenue / under-investment in team, and so on.

The fans need to see a good signing or 5, or they WILL lose faith.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Here we go again. There is a MASSIVE difference between paying competitive wages for the league you're in ('loosening the purse strings' if you like), and 'sh1t or bust'. Assuming there are only two options you can pursue is just, well, wrong. There is a clear continuum when it comes to player investment.

Loosening the purse strings implies that one has a bigger purse available. The club has its income - costs + the whatever the FFP limit is for the year. Up until now we have spent FAR more than that. That is not the way to achieve a self-sustaining club. Spending more than your income over a long period is precisely how you go bust.

As for people expecting the club to have reinvested the Ulloa/Bridcutt etc money already, then I say wait until the end of the transfer window before worrying.

 

[B.W.]

Loosening the purse strings implies that one has a bigger purse available. The club has its income - costs + the whatever the FFP limit is for the year. Up until now we have spent FAR more than that. That is not the way to achieve a self-sustaining club. Spending more than your income over a long period is precisely how you go bust.

As for people expecting the club to have reinvested the Ulloa/Bridcutt etc money already, then I say wait until the end of the transfer window before worrying.

(a) I certainly do NOT expect the club to invest all of the Liam/Leo/Ash money. I do, however, expect a significant proportion to be invested in the team (already coughed up some of it for Stephens, COG, etc.).
(b) End of the transfer window is far too late. We are 5/6 players down on a full strength squad (not just me saying this; Sami is too), and we have ALREADY taken far too long to plug the gaps.

 

[KZNSeagull]

(a) I certainly do NOT expect the club to invest all of the Liam/Leo/Ash money. I do, however, expect a significant proportion to be invested in the team (already coughed up some of it for Stephens, COG, etc.).
(b) End of the transfer window is far too late. We are 5/6 players down on a full strength squad (not just me saying this; Sami is too), and we have ALREADY taken far too long to plug the gaps.

Would you be happy if we signed 5/6 decent players tomorrow on free transfers? Or is the shelling out on inflated transfer fees more important? Also, 2 seasons ago we did a lot of business on the last day - whilst ideally I agree that we should get them in now, if waiting means we can get a better deal then so be it.

 

[B.W.]

Would you be happy if we signed 5/6 decent players tomorrow on free transfers? Or is the shelling out on inflated transfer fees more important? Also, 2 seasons ago we did a lot of business on the last day - whilst ideally I agree that we should get them in now, if waiting means we can get a better deal then so be it.

The problem is that we are currently severely under-strength. Not the same as 2 season's ago IMHO. Again, I obviously don't want us to pay over the odds, but... we certainly need to take a proper look at the ineffectiveness / inefficiency of our player recruitment. If that means loosening the purse strings a bit, and some other actions, then so be it.

I've no doubt I'd feel far happier if we added 3 of the 5, provided they are quality additions, next week. GK, LB, ST are my top priorities, but I believe we also need an ACM and LW.

 

[grawhite]

I'd say it works both ways. The club can have expectations but need to have the resources to meet these expectations. The supporters also need to realise that there may be a myriad of reasons why we haven't signed more people; are the people mentioned here and in the press actual targets? What are the reasons that deals aren't done yet? I think supporters have a 'football manager' mentality still - we identify a player, but it doesn't mean he will sign straight away. I'd happily bet that 95% of supporters haven't the first idea on how to run a club, or negotiate a transfer etc, but its all very easy to say what you want from behind a keyboard.

I can't think of many times that the club has been this transparent with the fans (semi-regular videos with TB, PB replying to pointless email after pointless email) but there are some things that we aren't entitled to - such as the inner workings and details surrounding transfers. Having an ST or being a fan for X years doesn't give us any more entitlement. Plunging money into the club might do, but that's exactly the same as any business; football is no different.

The club need to have some semblance of privacy; the more information they put into the public domain the more chance it will be used against them in transfer dealings - its one of the reasons we never publicise our transfer budget and most transfers are 'undisclosed' We just need to have some faith in that they are doing the best for the club. It's fine to have concerns and to air them, as long as they're thought out and not overly reactionary - which is the issue most people have with the negative supporters; their negativity isn't founded in fact or truth, just assumption. Whether that would change with more info from the club, who knows. I doubt that the board would look kindly on a team running the club that weren't doing their job properly...and we have no idea if they are or aren't so most assumptions (both positive and negative) are just that; assumptions.

I'm just planning to enjoy seeing the club evolve with TB at the helm and seeing Sami instil his style of play and bring in some new players as well as seeing the academy begin to work. If it takes us 1 year to reach the Prem or 10, really doesn't bother me. It won't temper my support for the club regardless.

This!

 

[chaileyjem]

Thank you for that.


The problem is, as I see it, that many of our fans are fairly new. I will always go to the game regardless. I'm sure you will. But will they? We are already a couple of thousand down on season ticket sales as I understand it. .

Really ? There's been no public announcement of # of ST holders since March when they were already 20k + and on a par with last season at that time.

We had 23K last year so that would imply we've not sold any in 4 months.

 

[B.W.]

Really ? There's been no public announcement of # of ST holders since March when they were already 20k + and on a par with last season at that time.

We had 23K last year so that would imply we've not sold any in 4 months.

21K at last count I believe, but that figure probably out of date. Wouldn't mind an update TBH. Maybe the club's silence on the figure and constant flogging of ST's (as well as shirts) on the OS speaks volumes?

 

[chaileyjem]

21K at last count I believe, but that figure probably out of date. Wouldn't mind an update TBH. Maybe the club's silence on the figure and constant flogging of ST's (as well as shirts) on the OS speaks volumes?

Do you have a link where club have confirmed a figure. Last story on seagulls.co.uk was http://www.seagulls.co.uk/news/arti...ing-20000-season-ticket-renewals-1412354.aspx in March .
"20K+..."

We didn't provide a running commentary last year on numbers and also, as you'd expect, tried hard to sell em up to start of season like this year. In the end they were the highest in the league and the highest ever for the club.

 

[B.W.]

Do you have a link where club have confirmed a figure. Last story on seagulls.co.uk was http://www.seagulls.co.uk/news/arti...ing-20000-season-ticket-renewals-1412354.aspx in March .
"20K+..."

We didn't provide a running commentary last year on numbers and also, as you'd expect, tried hard to sell em up to start of season like this year. In the end they were the highest in the league and the highest ever for the club.

Can't find link. Sorry. Have to agree that there is no need for running commentary on ST sales, so hopefully I'm just being paranoid.