[News] Climate change: Tax frequent fliers and get rid of SUVs, + California on fire.

[Stat Brother]

Climate change: Warmth shatters section of Greenland ice shelf

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54127279


A big chunk of ice has broken away from the Arctic's largest remaining ice shelf - 79N, or Nioghalvfjerdsfjorden - in north-east Greenland.

The ejected section covers about 110 square km; satellite imagery shows it to have shattered into many small pieces.

The loss is further evidence say scientists of the rapid climate changes taking place in Greenland.

"The atmosphere in this region has warmed by about 3C since 1980," said Dr Jenny Turton.

"And in 2019 and 2020, it saw record summer temperatures," the polar researcher at Friedrich-Alexander University in Germany told BBC News.

 

[highflyer]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000mn4n

Never been a better, or more important time to act. We can help re-stimulate the economy and reduce future danger of both climate chnage and pandemics.

We probably won't for one simple reason.
Our government is in the hands of people that value their use of private jets above the future of our planet and our children.

 

[portlock seagull]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000mn4n

Never been a better, or more important time to act. We can help re-stimulate the economy and reduce future danger of both climate chnage and pandemics.

We probably won't for one simple reason.
Our government is in the hands of people that value their use of private jets above the future of our planet and our children.

Taped this last night. Absolutely right about power balance mind. Depressingly. Be no different though for future generations. Scum always rises to the top and they care not for anyone but themselves. We share the planet not just with wildlife. But some right pond life who see the likes of you and I in similar light as Hitler did certain races. It’s disturbing to think that so many powerful people are psycho minded they genuinely believe their existence trumps everyone elses and so, if we die, so what (though they’d never admit publicly of course.)

 

[highflyer]

T We share the planet not just with wildlife. But some right pond life who see the likes of you and I in similar light as Hitler did certain races.

Not me.

They see me as 'one of them', as I have lived amongst them and studied their ways.

They are wrong though.

 

[portlock seagull]

Not me.

They see me as 'one of them', as I have lived amongst them and studied their ways.

They are wrong though.

Blimey, so you’re connected to Presidents, Oligarchs, Tyrants and so forth? And a billionaire? What on Earth are you doing on NSC?! Why aren’t you buying us a new striker yer scumbag?!!

 

[highflyer]

Apparently Brighton needs a 15 year action plan to add a cycle lane all the way to a roundabout.

Helsinki - Hold my herring


[tweet]1305021934749401088[/tweet]

I always struggle to imagine the conversation behind closed doors in number 10 somewhere:

'So, who should we be modelling our society on in future'?

'Well, The Nordic countries and New Zealand generally seem to do fairly well at most things that matter to people. Maybe we should try and learn something from them'?

'Hmmm, maybe... Actually, nah...scratch that, the US looks like a much better bet to me'

 

[highflyer]

Blimey, so you’re connected to Presidents, Oligarchs, Tyrants and so forth? And a billionaire? What on Earth are you doing on NSC?! Why aren’t you buying us a new striker yer scumbag?!!

Ha. Nope. Sorry. Not a billionare. Definitely not.
Very very rich in global terms yes. But relatively poor within my immediate neigbourhood.

You don't have to go as far as Presidents and Oligarchs though. Those pulling the strings of power are often closer to home (especially living in the South East rural commuter belt). And it's not (always) about deliberate, evil plotting or outwardly nasty individuals. Just about causal assumptions of entitlement, a commitment to the status quo, and 'groupthink' at the top of society that creates the intertia against change and maintains the structures of power we have. I have come to the conclusion that we'll see the world burn just because a relatively small group of people are too intellectually lazy to use their imagination or to think independently.

This isn't definitely me, but 'Capital without Borders' is a book I would thoroughly recommend, very insightful:

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ide-it-inside-secret-world-of-wealth-managers

 

[Stat Brother]

I always struggle to imagine the conversation behind closed doors in number 10 somewhere:

'So, who should we be modelling our society on in future'?

'Well, The Nordic countries and New Zealand generally seem to do fairly well at most things that matter to people. Maybe we should try and learn something from them'?

'Hmmm, maybe... Actually, nah...scratch that, the US looks like a much better bet to me'

I just can't get my head round it.

As I frequently say my Twitter account is just post after post of positivity from moving away from a car culture and yet this country can't stop fighting it.



Yesterday we rode through Littlehampton, on our way for a coffee.

Over the years millions have been spent on the riverside.
I assume due to Covid 400 yards of Pier Rd have been closed to through traffic.

The difference is absolutely amazing
People weren't rammed onto the prom.
It was almost silent.
It was so unbelievably different.

All for the 4 plastic barriers and 2 signs.

 

[highflyer]

I just can't get my head round it.

As I frequently say my Twitter account is just post after post of positivity from moving away from a car culture and yet this country can't stop fighting it.



Yesterday we rode through Littlehampton, on our way for a coffee.

Over the years millions have been spent on the riverside.
I assume due to Covid 400 yards of Pier Rd have been closed to through traffic.

The difference is absolutely amazing
People weren't rammed onto the prom.
It was almost silent.
It was so unbelievably different.

All for the 4 plastic barriers and 2 signs.

As above. When the status quo suits you very well, it's very easy to let yourself believe that there is no other way to arrange things.

And there is nothing, NOTHING, that a politician hates more than having to take a decision that some people won't like. Whatever they may say, for 90% of politicians, 'do nothing' is their default setting.

 

[larus]

I always struggle to imagine the conversation behind closed doors in number 10 somewhere:

'So, who should we be modelling our society on in future'?

'Well, The Nordic countries and New Zealand generally seem to do fairly well at most things that matter to people. Maybe we should try and learn something from them'?

'Hmmm, maybe... Actually, nah...scratch that, the US looks like a much better bet to me'

I'm all for science so I am extremely surprised whenever I look at charts which compare the climate models to the observations. After all, it's the climate models which are used to predict the future and influence policy.



They continually run hot. You can see for yourself - search climate models compared to observations.

Yes, the climate has warmed.
Yes, we need to limit pollution.
The UKs contribution to world CO2 is < 1%. China/India are building loads more coal power stations. What we do is irrelevant.

 

[schmunk]

I'm all for science so I am extremely surprised whenever I look at charts which compare the climate models to the observations. After all, it's the climate models which are used to predict the future and influence policy.

View attachment 128324

They continually run hot. You can see for yourself - search climate models compared to observations.

Yes, the climate has warmed.
Yes, we need to limit pollution.
The UKs contribution to world CO2 is < 1%. China/India are building loads more coal power stations. What we do is irrelevant.

What do the observations after 2012 look like?

 

[A1X]

I always struggle to imagine the conversation behind closed doors in number 10 somewhere:

'So, who should we be modelling our society on in future'?

'Well, The Nordic countries and New Zealand generally seem to do fairly well at most things that matter to people. Maybe we should try and learn something from them'?

'Hmmm, maybe... Actually, nah...scratch that, the US looks like a much better bet to me'

Unfortunately it's because the Government in this country are fundamentally incapable of having difficult conversations with the public. People would love a better NHS, more services etc. But they refuse to pay for it. They don't seem to realise this fundamental conflict in policy making.

 

[larus]

What do the observations after 2012 look like?

Google yourself and find out if you're that bothered. There are multiple charts out there.

I'm just pointing out facts - no emotion.

Fact:
There are 5 global temperature datasets (so there is not one temperature).
The data is manipulated and not raw. (i.e. adjustments are made to 'compensate' for factors. This is open to confirmation bias).

When people talk about 'average global temperature', what do they mean? Is it air temperature? If so, look at the globe. 70% is water so it's impossible to get a reading in the same place everyday. Of the remaining 30%, how much of that will be habitable and get decent readings? For example, Antarctica is approx 10% of the worlds landmass. All (well most) of our land readings will come from places with people.

Again, before the 'precious' take offence, I'm not denying the fact that the planet warmed at the end of the last century.

 

[beorhthelm]

Unfortunately it's because the Government in this country are fundamentally incapable of having difficult conversations with the public. People would love a better NHS, more services etc. But they refuse to pay for it. They don't seem to realise this fundamental conflict in policy making.

not just the people, public institutions, policy makers and politicans all treat change as outragous affront to whatever they support. so there's no serious attempt to inform let alone debate with the public what they would actually prefer.

that said every so often they just get on with something. we have net zero targets in law, so thats a step in the right direction and too often downplayed. our emissions and energy are all going down, so thats good too.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

It’s probably too late. Climate warming isn’t a new thing, the climate has historically fluctuated by incredible amounts over the span of thousands of years and earth has adapted...but we have impacted on it as a species...one species...causing filth and muck that will be detectable as a geological layer in millions of years time, long after we’ve moved on to either extinction or enlightenment.

It’s horrifying to say but we will reap what we sow. And good riddance if we don’t change. The earth won’t care.

 

[larus]

I smell bullshit if you do not provide citations.

Wow, you really don’t know that observations continually fall short of the models?

Jeez - tell you what Einstein, do yourself a favour and just google “climate models compared to observations”, then you can see the various charts. It’s really not that complicated.

 

[larus]

I would suggest you do yourself a favour and cite information you post. You can not just pull stuff out of your arse like you are doing. So, where is it from? Or are you scared to say as it is super dodgy?

I’ve told you what to search for. You can find it yourself. It’s widely known (apart from dipsh1ts) that the models overstate warming compared to observations.

There’s this thing called a search engine which searches websites on the internet. I’ve heard that google is quite good (although, there are others). Maybe you should give it a try and expand your knowledge.

Just trying to be helpful.

 

[larus]

Ok so, plyaing your game for a second seems to yield stuff that is counter to you random un-cited information:
https://www.nature.com/articles/nclimate1456 " Evaluation of model simulations against palaeodata shows that models reproduce the direction and large-scale patterns of past changes in climate, but tend to underestimate the magnitude of regional changes."

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aabef2/meta"We find that both methods produce emulated patterns of temperature and precipitation change that approximate the forced response (a 20 year average change by the end of the century) well within the CMIP5 models' structural uncertainty."

I mean that was just a quick 30s google. So I have no idea what you are going on about

Oh dear.

Someone doesn't understand the difference between the models projections of the FUTURE (which fail) and then trying to map the models to the palaeodata (which is often produced by proxies so can only ever be an estimate).

1/10 - must try harder.

So, to make it really simple for you. The point I am making is the climate models are used to predict future temperature changes. So, as we have a relatively decent amount of projection from the models over the last 30 odd years, it is not unreasonable to check how accurate lolol they are. So, when you start to quite the palaeodata references, you are either deflecting or ignorant.

 

[Stat Brother]

What we do is irrelevant.

It's annoyed me that I've let this slide for most of the day.

What we do isn't irrelevant to:-

- Our quality of life.
- Our environment.
- Our quality of air.
- Our levels of pollution.
- Our life expectancy.
- Our drain on resources such as the NHS.

& most importantly of all

What we do regarding our consistent killing of 6 (six) people a day due to our dependency on cars, isn't irrelevant .


'Climate change and us all dying out is going to happen anyway because of the big boys'

On a (selfish) level is fair enough.



But we don't have to go out in such a shitty way, just because 'it's been like this for all my lifetime'.

 

[larus]

It's annoyed me that I've let this slide for most of the day.

What we do isn't irrelevant to:-

- Our quality of life.
- Our environment.
- Our quality of air.
- Our levels of pollution.
- Our life expectancy.
- Our drain on resources such as the NHS.

& most importantly of all

What we do regarding our consistent killing of 6 (six) people a day due to our dependency on cars, isn't irrelevant .


'Climate change and us all dying out is going to happen anyway because of the big boys'

On a (selfish) level is fair enough.



But we don't have to go out in such a shitty way, just because 'it's been like this for all my lifetime'.

Fools go on about air quality and climate change, Air quality is NOT CO2. Only a complete retard would equate air quality to CO2. The change in CO2 since 1850 is (very roughly) 1 part in 10,000. Yep, that’s right 0.01% change in CO2 in the atmosphere from 0.0287% to 0.0405%. CO2 is an INERT, ODOURLESS, COLOURLESS gas molecule. You will not notice it, so don’t talk about quality of life, as it’s quite clear that you know the total of F*** All.

I am not saying that we should limit POLLUTION. My point is about CO2. CO2 is a naturally occuring atmospheric gas which fluctuates over time and that the Climate Models are garbage. They run too hot and always have done, yet these garbage models drive the climate debate.