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[Music] Cliff v BBC



Goldstone1976

We Got Calde in!!
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Apr 30, 2013
14,123
Herts
Agree with my learned friend [MENTION=27447]Goldstone1976[/MENTION] - the story here isn't Cliff and the BBC, it's the reporting of those who have been arrested, or similar, in connection with a crime and, essentially, when the mud subsequently sticks.

I'm sure some will remember the murder of Joanna Yeates in Bristol just before Christmas in 2010. I very much do as I was out in the same Clifton area of Bristol on that night, a stone's throw from where Joanne went missing.

Yeates's landlord Chris Jefferies was arrested in connection with her murder and the media went into overdrive. He was an eccentric-looking chap with a few mannerisms that stood out. The basic premise of the reporting was that as he looked a bit odd, he was bound to have done it. He was tried by media and found guilty. It was an open and shut case.

Only it wasn't. Jefferies was innocent. The murdered proved to be Vincent Tabak, an eminently normal and respectable-looking neighbour.

I've always wondered how Jefferies recovered and moved on from what must have been, for him, a truly horrendous experience.

Yep, it’s the big picture I’m interested in. The Jefferies case, which I recall being genuinely shocked about, was the one that prompted me to read the legislation and some of the then extant case law. The legislation and various Judges subsequently have acknowledged that they are trying to balance two “incompatible, competing” things - an individual’s right to privacy vs the press’ right to report.

The judge in the CR case has exhaustively examined the chronology of events that led to the reporting, and the meeting between the BBC and SYP (as well as various internal meetings), and various emails, and concluded that the facts of this particular case demonstrate that CR wins.

Some other snippets: he was scathing about the reliability of some of the BBC witnesses; where a fact was disputed as between the SYP version of events and the BBC version, he has plumped for the SYP version - most significantly in a phone call between the journalist and the SYP media relations person, and subsequently in a meeting between the journalist and the SYP. In a disturbing development, as part of the BBC case, they said that the SYP were involved in a conspiracy and that notes that had been made by the SYP participants 2 days after the meeting, had in fact been made over a month later when the shit had hit the fan. He examined this assertion in detail and called a resounding BS; he also found that at no time in their decision-making process did anyone at the BBC consider CR’s privacy rights - despite openly acknowledging that they knew that their reporting would likely cause him significant damage.

It’s entirely clear that he doesn’t consider the BBC or any of their employees to be evil people - rather, he believes they were cavalier in their approach, motivated almost entirely by their desire to keep the scoop.
 
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Weststander

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2011
69,206
Withdean area
Agree with my learned friend [MENTION=27447]Goldstone1976[/MENTION] - the story here isn't Cliff and the BBC, it's the reporting of those who have been arrested, or similar, in connection with a crime and, essentially, when the mud subsequently sticks.

I'm sure some will remember the murder of Joanna Yeates in Bristol just before Christmas in 2010. I very much do as I was out in the same Clifton area of Bristol on that night, a stone's throw from where Joanne went missing.

Yeates's landlord Chris Jefferies was arrested in connection with her murder and the media went into overdrive. He was an eccentric-looking chap with a few mannerisms that stood out. The basic premise of the reporting was that as he looked a bit odd, he was bound to have done it. He was tried by media and found guilty. It was an open and shut case.

Only it wasn't. Jefferies was innocent. The murdered proved to be Vincent Tabak, an eminently normal and respectable-looking neighbour.

I've always wondered how Jefferies recovered and moved on from what must have been, for him, a truly horrendous experience.

I remember that well.

The kangeroo court of public opinion found him guiity, fuelled by a media scrum to harrass the bloke. In a different era, (check the 10 Rillington Place case), he may even have been charged.

He was a little eccentric, unmarried, had been a private teacher, had tenants ...... all the hallmarks of ...... a completely innocent person.
 










Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
55,956
Faversham
Same thoughts exactly about the renamed management tool. Before I escaped to work for myself, I briefly saw that dribble.

Not needed in the 'management' of a professional in a unique roll, such as @HWT.

My rolls are always unique. Inedible, but unique.
 


pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
This thread is quite different to the Brexit thread regarding guilt.
On there people are advocating guilty until proven innocent ???
 


Ludensian Gull

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2009
3,921
Mistley Essex
I remember that well.

The kangeroo court of public opinion found him guiity, fuelled by a media scrum to harrass the bloke. In a different era, (check the 10 Rillington Place case), he may even have been charged.

He was a little eccentric, unmarried, had been a private teacher, had tenants ...... all the hallmarks of ...... a completely innocent person.

Simon Warr is yet another individual who was presumed innocent until proven guilty. Worked at the royal hospital school in Holbrook teaching Latin & French I believe. Lost his job , home, friends etc ,later it took a jury just 40 mins to find him innocent.
 




Goldstone1976

We Got Calde in!!
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Apr 30, 2013
14,123
Herts
Simon Warr is yet another individual who was presumed innocent until proven guilty. Worked at the royal hospital school in Holbrook teaching Latin & French I believe. Lost his job , home, friends etc ,later it took a jury just 40 mins to find him innocent.

Yep. And after the not guilty verdict the main school that was involved released a statement to the effect of “our overriding priority is the welfare of our pupils” and the BBC, who had employed him occasionally prior to the trial, released a statement to the effect of “he’s not under contract to us”. Neither organisation said that they were pleased that an innocent man had had his reputation reinstated, not, afaik, has either organisation employed him since the case was finished.

40 minutes to return a verdict is unbelievably short. The deliberations can barely have been anything more than “Well, does anyone think he has any guilt whatsoever? No? Right then, let’s go”.
 




beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,002
The BBC is pretty much a joke as a news organisation.

not sure thats fair. they report general events straight, to the point of banal at times, and they also have an extensive network of correspondents. the problem they have in news, as with much other BBC1 scheduling, is a pressure to chase ratings to prove they are value for money and justify their funding. wander away from BBC1 and theres a lot of rich diverse content, and news programmes such as Today on Radio 4 and Newsnight go far more in depth than most other channels.
 




TSB

Captain Hindsight
Jul 7, 2003
17,666
Lansdowne Place, Hove
So...are we just going to sweep that 50+ page thread of NSC with people inferring him being a nonce under the carpet then?
 




Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
72,290
So...are we just going to sweep that 50+ page thread of NSC with people inferring him being a nonce under the carpet then?

Well, NSC can only go so far before being come down on like a ton of bricks. The truth is out there. Just google Kitty.

Popbitch and elsewhere-not-quite-mainstream were pretty much upfront about Sir Jimmy having the keys to the mortuary at Leeds Infirmary. It was not far off a standing joke. Tho less so about him having the keys to the kiddies ward.

I had it on very good authority from a very good mate with very good connections 20 years ago about what Ted Heath got up to while he was PM - tho the guys assigned to protect his room were not authorised to intervene in the screams.

Some vile high-profile creatures out there at large still - on both sides of the Atlantic...
 




AK74

Bright-eyed. Bushy-tailed. GSOH.
NSC Patron
Jan 19, 2010
1,365
Popbitch and elsewhere-not-quite-mainstream were pretty much upfront about Sir Jimmy having the keys to the mortuary at Leeds Infirmary. It was not far off a standing joke. Tho less so about him having the keys to the kiddies ward.

Reverend Goatboy (RIP) was a legendary member of the PB board. He knew where all the proverbial bodies were buried.
 


BensGrandad

New member
Jul 13, 2003
72,015
Haywards Heath
A Tory MP has tabled a commons motion which they are calling Cliffs Law whereby the law is changed so that no suspect can be named until they have been actually charged with an offense. I think that it should be extended for the person to only be able to be named upon conviction not as in many cases where a person has been found not guilty like Michael Le Vell (Kevin Webster in Corrie)
 


LlcoolJ

Mama said knock you out.
Oct 14, 2009
12,982
Sheffield
Another easy target for the BBC bashers to moan about the licence fee etc. Dig a bit deeper and the real rotters here are (what a surprise!) South Yorkshire Police. A force still riddled with corruption and scumbags.

It could have been a journalist from Sky / ITN / one of the papers who was handed this "scoop" and it would have gone just the same way. But lets ignore the bent coppers and slag off the BBC instead. Sad.
 


The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
26,144
West is BEST
Agree with my learned friend [MENTION=27447]Goldstone1976[/MENTION] - the story here isn't Cliff and the BBC, it's the reporting of those who have been arrested, or similar, in connection with a crime and, essentially, when the mud subsequently sticks.

I'm sure some will remember the murder of Joanna Yeates in Bristol just before Christmas in 2010. I very much do as I was out in the same Clifton area of Bristol on that night, a stone's throw from where Joanne went missing.

Yeates's landlord Chris Jefferies was arrested in connection with her murder and the media went into overdrive. He was an eccentric-looking chap with a few mannerisms that stood out. The basic premise of the reporting was that as he looked a bit odd, he was bound to have done it. He was tried by media and found guilty. It was an open and shut case.

Only it wasn't. Jefferies was innocent. The murdered proved to be Vincent Tabak, an eminently normal and respectable-looking neighbour.

I've always wondered how Jefferies recovered and moved on from what must have been, for him, a truly horrendous experience.

Jeffries went on to give evidence at the Leveson enquiry. By his own admission he states that being a little odd made him a great teacher and helped him get through the terrible accusations. There was a drama about it a few years ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-...-christopher-jefferies-tv-drama-joanna-yeates
 




TSB

Captain Hindsight
Jul 7, 2003
17,666
Lansdowne Place, Hove
Well, NSC can only go so far before being come down on like a ton of bricks. The truth is out there. Just google Kitty.

Popbitch and elsewhere-not-quite-mainstream were pretty much upfront about Sir Jimmy having the keys to the mortuary at Leeds Infirmary. It was not far off a standing joke. Tho less so about him having the keys to the kiddies ward.

I had it on very good authority from a very good mate with very good connections 20 years ago about what Ted Heath got up to while he was PM - tho the guys assigned to protect his room were not authorised to intervene in the screams.

Some vile high-profile creatures out there at large still - on both sides of the Atlantic...

I'm not in any way condoning or disputing views expressed on that thread.
Just thought it interesting that it hadn't been mentioned and that most views seemed to be "Good on Cliff", given some of the past insinuations on here.
 


Goldstone1976

We Got Calde in!!
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Apr 30, 2013
14,123
Herts
Another easy target for the BBC bashers to moan about the licence fee etc. Dig a bit deeper and the real rotters here are (what a surprise!) South Yorkshire Police. A force still riddled with corruption and scumbags.

It could have been a journalist from Sky / ITN / one of the papers who was handed this "scoop" and it would have gone just the same way. But lets ignore the bent coppers and slag off the BBC instead. Sad.

I'm guessing you haven't read the judgment.

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/cliff-richard-v-bbc-judgment.pdf
 
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