[Albion] Class fans getting recognised…

[Deportivo Seagull]

That's something I do not understand at all. I can see why it's wrong to say someone stinks. Even if true, it isn't polite. But why is is specially wrong just because he is black?

Because there was and still is an assumption that those who are not white stink because they don’t wash or eat smelly foods and are generally uncivilised.
Personally I don’t believe Rodriguez is a racist I do however believe he’s ****ing stupid.


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[dsr-burnley]

You really don’t see that - rightly or wrongly - that could be construed as a racist remark?

I’ve just been reminded above that Rodriguez wasn’t even a Burnley player! Imagine the level of commitment to even potential racism you need to back a player that isn’t even yours.

No, I really don't see that telling a black man he stinks is racist. Genuinely, I don't. Except in the sense that all insults to black people are racist, and then we're going down a very dubious path of treating white people and black people as different from each other.

Could you please explain why it is racist to tell a man he stinks, if his skin colour happens to be dark?

Rodriguez was a then-former Burnley player, one of few Burnley apprentices to make it at top level, and one of very few Burnley-born players to be a top class, England player. (Even in our heyday there were very few Burnley-born internationals.)

 

[dsr-burnley]

Because there was and still is an assumption that those who are not white stink because they don’t wash or eat smelly foods and are generally uncivilised.
Personally I don’t believe Rodriguez is a racist I do however believe he’s ****ing stupid.


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That's not one I'm familiar with.

But since there is an assumption among a minority of people that Burnley-born people are uncivilised as well then perhaps Rodriguez wasn't aware of this association.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Every single time the taking of the knee is booed by a significant minority in a crowd, it serves as a reminder to the players of why their stance IS still needed, and absolutely guarantees that they will continue to do it for the foreseeable future.

If you boo the knee because you don't agree if the anti-discrimination cause, then you're a filthy racist.

If you boo it because you think it has been going on too long, and you'd like it to stop, then you're a complete ****ing moron.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

No, I really don't see that telling a black man he stinks is racist. Genuinely, I don't. Except in the sense that all insults to black people are racist, and then we're going down a very dubious path of treating white people and black people as different from each other.

Could you please explain why it is racist to tell a man he stinks, if his skin colour happens to be dark?

Rodriguez was a then-former Burnley player, one of few Burnley apprentices to make it at top level, and one of very few Burnley-born players to be a top class, England player. (Even in our heyday there were very few Burnley-born internationals.)

See my post above. There was a very unpleasant NF song which referred to people being dirty, smelly and black. The connotation is still there.
At the end of day why say it in the first place, secondly why cover your mouth when you say. An idiot of biblical proportions.


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[The Kid Frankie]

singing songs about people from poorer areas having free school meals, is not classy.

Burnley fans lecturing anyone about class...

Regardless of where any of us stand on the kneeling/booing debate - I know I am enjoying the near universal online praise for the decent level of banter from our lot. Especially at the expense of Burnley.

 

[Stato]

Honestly, I think there are some people on here who live by the motto "I'm glad I'm not prejudiced like all northern people."

Yes, obviously Brighton is a much richer part of the country than Burnley, and you are well within your rights to sneer at the people who earn less than you and need help to live. But I'd hardly call it classy. Funny, perhaps. Classy is the wrong word by a long way.

Whilst I'd support your view that the stereotyping of those who live in the north does nobody any favours, I'd pull you up on the 'sneer at people who earn less' comment. The comment seems to assume that, because the Brighton fans who sang this live in a statistically more affluent part of the country, that they themselves earn more than the opposing fans. This gets too close to the oft repeated stereotype that everyone in the south is middle class and loaded. Deprivation happens to individuals. It is measured in statistics and they show it to be more prevalent in some areas, but that doesn't mean that it is absent in others.

In truth those in both ends with enough disposable income to pay the prices to get into Premier League football are actually less likely to be from the economic demographic in question, but its absolutely not out of the question that some of those Brighton fans singing about the good work Marcus Rashford has done also have benefited from or have kids, relatives or friends who have benefited from Free School Meals. Poverty and the need to accept support when its needed should not be a reason for shame for anybody. Some may argue that deprivation figures show it to be more likely for a fan living in the Burnley area, but then that just proves the logic in the irony that makes the chant funny. i.e. If you're an individual who is statistically more likely to be a part of a community that is economically similar to Rashford's own background, and perhaps more likely to have been helped by his campaigning, why would you be less supportive of a message of solidarity (i.e. taking the knee) that, among other things, goes some way to express a community belief that the abuse that Rashford and other players suffered after the Euros is something that needs to be expunged from our sport and our society?

I'd agree that it's not classy, but it is clever, satirical and ironic. Football chants are not really the medium for the delivery of classy messages. The nearest I remember was when Frank Le Boeuf said in an interview that he didn't like the swearing in the Chelsea fans' tribute to him: "He's here, he's there, he's every f***in'-where, FLB" and they changed to singing 'He's here, he's there (We're not allowed to swear) FLB".

 

[Thunder Bolt]

That's not one I'm familiar with.

But since there is an assumption among a minority of people that Burnley-born people are uncivilised as well then perhaps Rodriguez wasn't aware of this association.

Burnley fans don't do themselves any favours with their homophobia, so it's not surprising they are viewed as uncivilised.

 

[brightn'ove]

I am not racist.

Hmmm you lost me here

 

[dazzer6666]

That's something I do not understand at all. I can see why it's wrong to say someone stinks. Even if true, it isn't polite. But why is is specially wrong just because he is black?

The accusation was one of Rodriguez saying ‘you’re black and you stink’.

 

[brightn'ove]

No, I really don't see that telling a black man he stinks is racist. Genuinely, I don't. Except in the sense that all insults to black people are racist, and then we're going down a very dubious path of treating white people and black people as different from each other.

Could you please explain why it is racist to tell a man he stinks, if his skin colour happens to be dark?

Rodriguez was a then-former Burnley player, one of few Burnley apprentices to make it at top level, and one of very few Burnley-born players to be a top class, England player. (Even in our heyday there were very few Burnley-born internationals.)

In France it was sadly very common for white French to racially abuse French-Africans by saying that they smell. Bong grew up with that racist abuse as a young boy in France, so even if Rodriguez did not mean it in that way, Bong has every right to interpret it as the same type of racist abuse he received as a youth. For Burnley fans to boo a player that genuinely believed they had been racially abused is denying his lived experience. That is racism, it's really that simple.

 

[Stato]

The accusation was one of Rodriguez saying ‘you’re black and you stink’.

Rodriguez said that his words were 'Your breath f***ing stinks'. This may not have been racist in intent, but it was a stupid insult to aim at an opponent from West Africa, who is certainly likely at some point in his life to have suffered similar abusive accusations that were more obviously connected with his ethnicity. Rodriguez's intent is something that only he knows and the FA investigation, but 'not proven' result seemed to follow the right process and reach the right outcome for the evidence available. Assuming that JR is being honest, it was still a stupid and tone deaf thing for him to throw at an opponent just to gain a small sledging advantage.

 

[Stato]

there is an assumption among a minority of people that Burnley-born people are uncivilised

Could this minority of people possibly be labelled 'Blackburn fans?'

 

[dsr-burnley]

See my post above. There was a very unpleasant NF song which referred to people being dirty, smelly and black. The connotation is still there.
At the end of day why say it in the first place, secondly why cover your mouth when you say. An idiot of biblical proportions.


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It seems fairly obvious to me why someone saying "you stink" would hold his nose. As you say, saying it in the first place was rude and unnecessary. But in school playgrounds, which I think are a fair intellectual equivalent of what Rodriguez was doing, the word "pooh" was almost always associated with holding one's nose.

And just to make my point clear, when holding one's nose there is a fair chance that one is covering one's mouth.

 

[osgood]

what meaning does dsr burnley have ?
just out of interest ?
deutsche socialist republic of burnley ?

 

[dazzer6666]

Rodriguez said that his words were 'Your breath f***ing stinks'. This may not have been racist in intent, but it was a stupid insult to aim at an opponent from West Africa, who is certainly likely at some point in his life to have suffered similar abusive accusations that were more obviously connected with his ethnicity. Rodriguez's intent is something that only he knows and the FA investigation, but 'not proven' result seemed to follow the right process and reach the right outcome for the evidence available. Assuming that JR is being honest, it was still a stupid and tone deaf thing for him to throw at an opponent just to gain a small sledging advantage.

I said the accusation……ie what GB claimed he said, not what Rodriguez claimed. As you say, even if it was what Rodriguez said, it was crass at best.

 

[Stato]

In France it was sadly very common for white French to racially abuse French-Africans by saying that they smell. Bong grew up with that racist abuse as a young boy in France, so even if Rodriguez did not mean it in that way, Bong has every right to interpret it as the same type of racist abuse he received as a youth. For Burnley fans to boo a player that genuinely believed they had been racially abused is denying his lived experience. That is racism, it's really that simple.

Very well put. In my experience, anyone born before this millennium began who claims to be innocently unaware of the existence of a racist trope that people from ethnic minority backgrounds 'smell funny' is either a liar or .... No I can't think of anything, they're just a liar.

 

[Stato]

what meaning does dsr burnley have ?
just out of interest ?
deutsche socialist republic of burnley ?

A bit unfair. The poster has been on here for a while, and while he obviously takes some opposing views on matters that relate to his own team or fans, I've not seen him express anything that calls for that.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

It seems fairly obvious to me why someone saying "you stink" would hold his nose. As you say, saying it in the first place was rude and unnecessary. But in school playgrounds, which I think are a fair intellectual equivalent of what Rodriguez was doing, the word "pooh" was almost always associated with holding one's nose.

And just to make my point clear, when holding one's nose there is a fair chance that one is covering one's mouth.

But he’s not six nor in a school playground. He’s an adult playing in a very high visibility’ sport where racism has been and still is an issue. He should know better. It was stupid, childish, unacceptable and quite frankly he should be embarrassed.

Trying to defend such stupidity is uncalled for. If he’d apologised at the time for being a dickhead. If Burnley had turned round and said ‘it’s not his finest moment, he’s spoken with Bong and apologised’ then we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

At the last home game against Burnley he was warming up in front of the west stand. You could clearly hear a guy shout’ you’re a racist Rodriguez’. Rodriguez looked shocked and not a little upset. As I’ve said before I don’t believe he’s racist but **** me he’s dug a hole for himself by not apologising when he had the chance.


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[The Kid Frankie]

Rather than argue the toss with the Burnley visitor, can’t we all just sit back and enjoy big ard orrible Burnley getting so out their pram.

All those times ‘a town full of ******s’ and the rest of the tired old homophobic songs and taunts was ‘just banter’ - not to mention the racism. Now they are getting some back they are crying about it hahaha…