Ckr

[5 past Kuipers]

I preferred the look on his face when we beat Palace the following Oct. He said he's never lost at Selhurst Park.

Strange. He lost his most important game at Selhurst - 97 play-off semi when at Wolves.

 

[Delusional Pengoon]

So, as long as we have never heard of a player - if he is bought in and proves that he has talent, and that is never capitolised upon, it's wrong to look at the bloke who brought him in!

I see ( )

Nice return, for the lad who won the Coca-Cola money that bought him in. Still, free money, what the heck, doesn't matter if its' wasted then (and a player takes a squad place that could be occupied by someone who would show lots of effort and perhaps make a difference.... such as Alexis Nicolas)

I am not quite sure of the point you are trying to make. CKR chose not to capitalise on his talent by not working hard in training or putting in 100% on the pitch, to blame MM for this seems harsh.

We all wanted CKR to be an unqualified success, as we do with all players, but no manager has such a track record. Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger etc have all bought turkeys at far greater expense than the Albion have shelled out.

I don't recall there being a huge outcry when CKR was dropped to the bench, the consensus was that he was not applying himself. You are saying that this was due to MM, I don't know enough about the inside workings of the club to comment, do you?

There are dozens of footballers who are signed each year and fail to live up to expectations, I am sure Celtic fans will agree in the case of Adam Virgo. CKR cost us £45,000 and we sold him for £150,000, which means that MM made a profit on him, so it is not money wasted.

As for Alexis Nicholas, he is now playing non-league football, so again I don't know what you are implying.

As for the lad who bought him in, he made £10,000 out of it, which is a nice return.

 

[NMH]

I am not quite sure of the point you are trying to make. CKR chose not to capitalise on his talent by not working hard in training or putting in 100% on the pitch, to blame MM for this seems harsh.

We all wanted CKR to be an unqualified success, as we do with all players, but no manager has such a track record. Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger etc have all bought turkeys at far greater expense than the Albion have shelled out.

I don't recall there being a huge outcry when CKR was dropped to the bench, the consensus was that he was not applying himself. You are saying that this was due to MM, I don't know enough about the inside workings of the club to comment, do you?

There are dozens of footballers who are signed each year and fail to live up to expectations, I am sure Celtic fans will agree in the case of Adam Virgo. CKR cost us £45,000 and we sold him for £150,000, which means that MM made a profit on him, so it is not money wasted.

As for Alexis Nicholas, he is now playing non-league football, so again I don't know what you are implying.

As for the lad who bought him in, he made £10,000 out of it, which is a nice return.

That Nicolas is playing non-league doesn't detract from his effort when playing for us - which is more pertinant to the point than what he's doing for some other team now since we were talking about effort and input.

That we had (at least) three players at the same time, who apparently didn't gather the concept that they should put some effort into training and matches, is more than a little fishy isn't it? Are you going to say that little Leon Blight had more professional influence on Jarrett and Kazim-Richards than the club manager could?

Okay, so little skint Brighton are the easy-life club carrying lazy players, all with lots of talent but bad attitudes?

I might suggest that, if you were manager - you might not let that situation fester for very long AT ALL.
As someone who has employed people to work for me, that sort of attitude doesn't last minutes, let alone months!


I'm also a little baffled about the meaning behind the sales of seemingly bog-standard players for way more than they prove to be worth, vs. the inability to control and subsequent selling of obviously talented players for a pittance ..... does that still come out as a positive?

 

[Gritt23]

Quite, and a good observation BoF - and there-in lies some intrinsic fact.

IF a club that's happy languishing in the lower division acquires a player with vision and talent, and one who can think in a Premiership-quality-kind-of-way, that player is going to see very clearly when they are put into a situation that has little future.
Some lads might feel comfortable playing in formations that have no future and will not lead to any fulfilled ambition.
Zamora worked great for us - a quality player who was able to fit into the 2nd Division level because Mickey Adams opened games up to include his skills - and he could capitolise. The manager and player worked together well and it paid out in spades.
Now imagine Zamora forced to play to a manager's will, where-in he cannot excel, struggles to get the service that will enable him to score goals - and young Zamora is told "it's my way or the highway, or you play in the reserves and LIKE IT". I put it to you that Zamora would be uncomfortable, not want to stick around, and probably rebel so he can move out asap.

Yes, these Mcghee lovers want to say that he got us promoted and won some games, and it's the fault of these bad-boy players Knight Jarrett CKR that they couldn't get on with it.
Maybe they're outstanding architects who like to be excellent tea-boys or stay in the mail-room and be model professionals while their best years (in the case of sport - in a short profession) whipped by. Maybe they're brilliant bricklayers who would be happy to be fantastic hod-carriers for a small company going nowhere?

It's difficult to get the point across to some people who just think "these were BAD servants" - but they would be DEAD RIGHT if you want to harness proper talent to a club with no more ambition than to survive in the lower divisions. Nope, let THEM go;- WE DON'T WANT BRILLIANT TALENT PLAYING FOR A CLUB THAT IS JUST INTENT ON BASIC SURVIVAL. It won't work for either party, and it has been proven thankyouverymuch.

Very good point about Zamora, as I seem to remember it was something about Holloway sticking him out on the left wing in pre-season that led to him suddenly becoming available and us buying him.

As for CKR, the way I heard it was that MM was still angry about Leon after he left, and with him not being around anymore, he took his frustrations out on CKR a little too much.

I'm sure both sides have very different versions of the same events, so it'll be impossible for us to ever be sure who was to blame, and I'd imagine it's at least partly down to both. But if a manager is mishandling you I can't blame a player for wanting out.

 

[goldstone]

I am not quite sure of the point you are trying to make. CKR chose not to capitalise on his talent by not working hard in training or putting in 100% on the pitch, to blame MM for this seems harsh.

We all wanted CKR to be an unqualified success, as we do with all players, but no manager has such a track record. Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger etc have all bought turkeys at far greater expense than the Albion have shelled out.

I don't recall there being a huge outcry when CKR was dropped to the bench, the consensus was that he was not applying himself. You are saying that this was due to MM, I don't know enough about the inside workings of the club to comment, do you?

Two points:

1. I don't think anyone is blaming MM 100%, but as the club manager he should have been able to do a lot more to bring the lad along.

2. There WAS an outcry that MM changed the striking partnership every game thus not giving any two an opportunity to get used to working together. CKR and OGH together for a decent stretch would (I believe) have kept us in the Championship.

Fact is CKR is now doing pretty well in the Premiership. Much better than I or anyone else on here thought he would. All of which makes you wonder why his previous manager didn't believe he was good enough to start in the next tier down.

 

[NMH]

Very good point about Zamora, as I seem to remember it was something about Holloway sticking him out on the left wing in pre-season that led to him suddenly becoming available and us buying him.

As for CKR, the way I heard it was that MM was still angry about Leon after he left, and with him not being around anymore, he took his frustrations out on CKR a little too much.

I'm sure both sides have very different versions of the same events, so it'll be impossible for us to ever be sure who was to blame, and I'd imagine it's at least partly down to both. But if a manager is mishandling you I can't blame a player for wanting out.

Well let's not forget that we do support a home team that means a lot to us, more than just a pay-packet for someone else who could work somewhere else. To them it might be a job, there to be loved or hated according to the management or atmosphere or 'customer attitude'.
I've had jobs which potentially could have been brilliant, but for a company that wasn't at all brilliant, and with people in high positions who didn't command any respect at all. Mrs Thatcher was one example, her fantastic efforts in breaking the unions meant lowered wages for years, an insulting wage offer "as an example to the rest of the country".
The upshot was the nationally destructive unions were stripped of power, but on the downside I had to quit my job to avoid the 3-day week and ensuing battle until the industry was privatised. So, whatever circumstance prevailed over the company's conducting - it wasn't an enjoyable place to be. Not very condusive to the giving of one's best either. If I also had a boss who required I play out of position and insisted I perform tasks I was neither happy with or good at, I doubt I would have turned in my best.

I think the parallel isn't out of place for football players either - and although there's never a constantly perfect situation, they want one that has potential to show what they do best.

 

[Turkey]

Fact is CKR is now doing pretty well in the Premiership. Much better than I or anyone else on here thought he would. All of which makes you wonder why his previous manager didn't believe he was good enough to start in the next tier down.

This happens all the time mind. Virgo didn't get a look in under Coppell but McGhee found a player who played a massive part in our promotion and survival seasons.

Also, I'd note, a player who was not only willing, but successful playing out of position. Managers have been around a lot longer than the younger players and I think a bit of respect and trust wouldn't go a miss.

 

[Delusional Pengoon]

I agree with what has been said about playing players out of position, but look at the likes of OGH, who came to the club as a centre forward, then converted to right midfield, and then right back. Similarly with the Ginger Prince, left back, centre half, centre midfield and left midfield. Adam Virgo played up front, midfield, and all along the back line.

With no disrespect to any of the above, they are not as talented as CKR, but they do have a team ethic, and a willingness to help the overall cause.