Err I wouldn't say the situation on the ground is that the entire country is rising up against the Government..
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Civil War Brewing in the Ukraine?
- Thread starter jakarta
- Start date
Err I wouldn't say the situation on the ground is that the entire country is rising up against the Government..
clapham_gull
Legacy Fan
- Aug 20, 2003
- 25,877
er yes, there are obvious parallels.
I'm sure you are up to date with Bob Crow's new initiative.
Barrel of Fun
Abort, retry, fail
Russia speaks...
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,886
More than "a bit", in my view EU words and deeds relating to democracy are completely different matters.
Notwithstanding its own lack of democratic legitimacy, this is the institution that supported the removal of a democratically elected Berlasconi to be replaced by an ex EU Commissioner who created a cabinet of entirely unelected officials. Whilst a long standing basket case Italy has descended into chaos and is now on its 3rd unelected PM.
And only recently we have seen how much unelected EU officials hold democracy in contempt with their responses to the Swiss referendum and views on Scottish independence.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0e29f3ee-98b3-11e3-8503-00144feab7de.html
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f534a5fe-919c-11e3-8fb3-00144feab7de.html
dougdeep
New member
Peace plan is supposed to be put in place at 10am today. Is it too late.
hybrid_x
Banned
- Jun 28, 2011
- 2,225
"This is modern warfare. Egypt, Libya, Venezuela, Ukraine and the entire Arab spring... Spy agencies of the US and most likely UK and Israel fund, train and provoke anti-government parties or the opposition parties to lead revolution and turn a country into chaos. It's the new way creating regime change and destabilizing countries to ruin their economy, steal their resources and remove any military threat that country could."
Soon many who call the above conspiracy may wise up as the evidence is alarming and becoming hard to ignore.
The question i would ask is how long before a rising occurs in Moscow to remove Putin?
It is nearly ALL based on economic growth (stock, index, and currency markets, and central banks).
Ask yourself why the EU did not place sanctions on the Greek goverment for killing rioters/protestors? Clue: They are already under ECB control.
Soon many who call the above conspiracy may wise up as the evidence is alarming and becoming hard to ignore.
The question i would ask is how long before a rising occurs in Moscow to remove Putin?
It is nearly ALL based on economic growth (stock, index, and currency markets, and central banks).
Ask yourself why the EU did not place sanctions on the Greek goverment for killing rioters/protestors? Clue: They are already under ECB control.
somerset
New member
....and if you take your blinkers off and look at the whole picture, you will find plnty of evidence that the Svr, Fsb, GRU, (Russia)......Mss (China).....Isi (Pakistan) and Raw ( India)..... are among many that are active abroad, ......as usual Hybrid had demonstrated his inability to offer a balanced and considered view.....please try harder.
Paskman
Not a user
Don't forget the other side of the story in the Ukraine: there are powerful business interests within the country who stand to make even more money if the Ukraine has closer ties with the EU. They are funding the opposition, including paying people from outside Kiev to join the demonstrations. A friend of mine, who is high up in a well known UK charity, has a Ukrainian wife; her sister was offered approx £300 to go (she's in Odessa) and demonstrate. You don't hear that side in the UK media.......
somerset
New member
Yes you do......I heard it 2 days ago on 5Live and yesterday I read about it in the Independent.....
Paskman
Not a user
Stand corrected..........
OzMike
Well-known member
Putin;"I had to move in to stop all this terrible killing of helpless civilians."
I can hear it now.
I can hear it now.
Democracy in name only in the Ukraine now. Yanukovich is Putin's puppet who increased his own Presidential powers after election ( no 'House of Lords' or independent judiciary to stop him ).
The opposition want him to resign, go back to the previous constitution, and hold new elections. He would be free to stand for re-election in these elections ( but would have no chance as his support in the east is much reduced now ).
The sanctions are good - hit the oligarchs - particularly Akhmetov - who bankroll Yanukovich, in the pocket by freezing all their riches banked in the west.
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Uncle Buck
Ghost Writer
- Jul 7, 2003
- 28,075
Exactly.
How can people say he is a legitimate leader when he has consolidated power by changing the constitution and essentially removing any checks on his power.
It is no longer a democratic presidency out there.
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 28,273
You must be a heavy sleeper then ? " The erosion of communism " as I put it, began with the election of Mikhail Gorbachev in 1985 and his policies of Perestroika and Glasnost which led the way to the end of effective communist control across most of Eastern Europe by 1990.
As for "And what is your problem with people deciding the outcome of how they want to live? ", wow ! do I come across as an old style communist/Stalinist ? or just even a new style communist ? I am right behind the protest at an inflexible and probably corrupt regime that is imposing its will against that of many of the people. I just said that I fear for them.
It's what happens when a criminal world comes to power. Political persuasion, democratic elections or otherwise, don't come into it.
Tom Bombadil
Well-known member
I'm reading Daniel Kahneman at the moment, I recommend you try his book thinking fast and slow. You might recognise yourself in the chapters , the illusion of validity and the illusion of understanding. But he is Jewish so i'm not sure you will be that open minded to what he says.
Blue Valkyrie
Not seen such Bravery!
Armed police from west ukraine have apparently now joined forces with the protestors in Kiev.
Ukraine on the brink now. Hope this talked of peace deal goes through.
Ukraine on the brink now. Hope this talked of peace deal goes through.
daveinprague
New member
A lot of people will groan, as they know how I feel about Nazis etc....but seeing some of the protesters carrying the red and black flag that is associated with the nationalists associated with collaborating with the nazis in ww2...and at least one protestor carrying a shield with a white power symbol....even with 14 88 on it..is a bit disturbing...and wearing the uniforms of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army that colloborated with the Nazis in WW2
Nationalists will be at the front of the protests, but hopefully the right nationalists end up in power
Nationalists will be at the front of the protests, but hopefully the right nationalists end up in power
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Czechmate
Well-known member
I read somewhere there are a lot of people being paid to be at these protests , like a woman from Odessa was offered £300 , just like in Syria it was reported that many people fighting the government are people that have been paid and are mercenaries with no connection to the country . Do you not think there is some behind the scenes agenda for the West ?
It is very much a shame for Ukraine , for the people . It looks like the country will be divided but still there are a lot of people who would rather be more Russian than Europe , lets not forget their feelings . I have been many times to Ukraine (including the Euro's) and to me the more friendly people are to the East of the country , very nice people and friendly and would do anything for you . I guess the best way forward would be new elections , but would they be fair ?
It is very much a shame for Ukraine , for the people . It looks like the country will be divided but still there are a lot of people who would rather be more Russian than Europe , lets not forget their feelings . I have been many times to Ukraine (including the Euro's) and to me the more friendly people are to the East of the country , very nice people and friendly and would do anything for you . I guess the best way forward would be new elections , but would they be fair ?