Civil War Brewing in the Ukraine?

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Chilli... did they need to send in their forced... if it was a US backed coup I'm sure Russia could have bankrolled their own counter-revolution without marching in and it shoudl have been easier as they are just across the border.. this is where I think your argument breaks down.

Czechmate.... my colleagues in Kiev are horrified by what the Russians have done and were over the moon over the ousting of the president... feelings that seem to be mirrored by our Ukrainian community here... as one said (who was less happy about the removal)... it's our problem to sort out... not the Russians. And again, I ask, were the Sudetens right to ask Hitler in?

 

[daveinprague]

The people of Kiev are not the Ukraine....
The people living outside of the Ukraine in western Europe will obviously support a move to the west, and stop pretending to yourself, all of the Ukraine wants to be western, as they clearly dont.

 

[Czechmate]

Chilli... did they need to send in their forced... if it was a US backed coup I'm sure Russia could have bankrolled their own counter-revolution without marching in and it shoudl have been easier as they are just across the border.. this is where I think your argument breaks down.

Czechmate.... my colleagues in Kiev are horrified by what the Russians have done and were over the moon over the ousting of the president... feelings that seem to be mirrored by our Ukrainian community here... as one said (who was less happy about the removal)... it's our problem to sort out... not the Russians. And again, I ask, were the Sudetens right to ask Hitler in?

I respect you and your friends opinions , firstly I don't think no one should ever compare wars , invasions etc ,as each is a different situation , whether racist , religion , communist or whatever each should be taken at the time and each situation individually . Secondly I can understand your friends views in Kiev , that is what they want but it should be done democratically , not the way it was handled , ok the old president may of been swindling away money and changed promises/documents for what he was elected for . Then vote him out at the next election ! As for your friends views then great and I can understand that , I have friends also in Dnepropetrovsk who I am in contact with constantly , they have a different viewpoint , they weren't keen on the old president but they were happy enough and got on with their everyday lives . They weren't too keen on the EU getting involved and they detest the Americans , the point is they would of made their feelings felt at the next elections whichever way they decided to vote ! Now it has annoyed them that someone (who thinks they now run the country) has been put in undemocratically . I hope the elections will go ahead in May as planned peacefully and let it be resolved by the Ukrainians , but this could lead to a split who knows ?

I admit I was worried about the forcefulness of the Russians , I hope it was not their intentions to start a war just protecting !

 

[Czechmate]

Bloody hell my posts have nearly doubled because of this topic I am only trying to put across an independent view , Ukraine is a very large country , not everything or everyone revolves around Kiev and Lviv !!!!!!

 

[sparkie]

Brother in law got his callup papers for the Ukrainian Army today *sad*

 

[Czechmate]

Brother in law got his callup papers for the Ukrainian Army today *sad*

Good luck to him , I hope he is not needed and the situation is worked out peacefully !

 

[sparkie]

Good luck to him , I hope he is not needed and the situation is worked out peacefully !

Thank you. As do we all.

 

[Wellesley]

I'm more worried this could lead to similar events closer to home. In Saltdean we are split between Brighton and Lewes council. There is often a show of force from either side on Longridge Avenue and I fear that Lewes council are try to stir up the many on the Brighton side that have become disillusioned with the Greens. Already I fear the bin-men are flexing their muscles because they have refused to empty our bins for two weeks now, even the ones that are free of dog corpses. Where will it all end? It wouldn't surprise me if the grass verges are left uncut next.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

US Navy given permission by Turkey to send vessel through to Black Sea.

Unknown what type of ship / submarine.

Is it the first of many to gradually ratchet up the pressure

 

[Stoo82]

All over the world, there is trouble and strife for different reasons, and a war or wars, somewhere, are brewing. And Britain has sold herself to the highest bidder and left us truly vulnerable.

But there is very little need for a fully mobilized military. Its all missiles and Planes. It is highly unlikely we will ever need to a) deploy more than 5,000 troops anywhere around the world or b) fight an invading force.

How has Britain, 'sold herself to the highest bidder'? Who owns Britain now then? How are we vulnerable? Who is going to invade us?

 

[vegster]

US Navy given permission by Turkey to send vessel through to Black Sea.

Unknown what type of ship / submarine.

Is it the first of many to gradually ratchet up the pressure

TBH that would be fairly pointless as the Russians could blow it out of the water at will and one ship really isn't going to worry Putin. It was incredible to see the level of intimidation that the " Self Defence Forces " are able to get away with. Ukrainian Navy ships, tied up in their own country's ports, have been made to surrender their small arms and are under a blockade and unable to leave harbour. Quite incredible what Putin can get away with.

 

[Uncle C]

the Russians could blow it out of the water at will

I think you play too many computer games.

 

[HovaGirl]

But there is very little need for a fully mobilized military. Its all missiles and Planes. It is highly unlikely we will ever need to a) deploy more than 5,000 troops anywhere around the world or b) fight an invading force.

How has Britain, 'sold herself to the highest bidder'? Who owns Britain now then? How are we vulnerable? Who is going to invade us?

Who owns our airports? Our banks?

 

[brightn'ove]

TBH that would be fairly pointless as the Russians could blow it out of the water at will and one ship really isn't going to worry Putin. It was incredible to see the level of intimidation that the " Self Defence Forces " are able to get away with. Ukrainian Navy ships, tied up in their own country's ports, have been made to surrender their small arms and are under a blockade and unable to leave harbour. Quite incredible what Putin can get away with.

The Russians are not stupid enough to blow up a potentially nuclear submarine.

 

[brightn'ove]

Brother in law got his callup papers for the Ukrainian Army today *sad*

That is scary, if they are calling up expatriated citizens they must not be too optimistic about Russia's intentions.

I hope it's just a precautionary thing rather than tactical. I really hope this all ends without a drop of blood spilled.

 

[sparkie]

That is scary, if they are calling up expatriated citizens they must not be too optimistic about Russia's intentions.

I hope it's just a precautionary thing rather than tactical. I really hope this all ends without a drop of blood spilled.

He's not an expat, but you are right about the pessimism about Russia's intentions. All very scary.

 

[Uncle Buck]

This is a phenomenal piece of propaganda;

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/why-there-will-be-war-in-ukraine/495740.html

Looks like Goebbels left his mark in the east.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

I respect you and your friends opinions , firstly I don't think no one should ever compare wars , invasions etc ,as each is a different situation , whether racist , religion , communist or whatever each should be taken at the time and each situation individually . Secondly I can understand your friends views in Kiev , that is what they want but it should be done democratically , not the way it was handled , ok the old president may of been swindling away money and changed promises/documents for what he was elected for . Then vote him out at the next election ! As for your friends views then great and I can understand that , I have friends also in Dnepropetrovsk who I am in contact with constantly , they have a different viewpoint , they weren't keen on the old president but they were happy enough and got on with their everyday lives . They weren't too keen on the EU getting involved and they detest the Americans , the point is they would of made their feelings felt at the next elections whichever way they decided to vote ! Now it has annoyed them that someone (who thinks they now run the country) has been put in undemocratically . I hope the elections will go ahead in May as planned peacefully and let it be resolved by the Ukrainians , but this could lead to a split who knows ?

I admit I was worried about the forcefulness of the Russians , I hope it was not their intentions to start a war just protecting !

Good response. Agree with you on all you wrote. I agree the 'ousting' was wrong and I am not sure that the new leaders are in any way better than the last but I do think this is something Ukraine needs to deal with themselves. My issue is that Russia think its ok to move in using those people as an excuse for its own territorial gains. This is what smacks of Sudeten to me.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

This is a phenomenal piece of propaganda;

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/why-there-will-be-war-in-ukraine/495740.html

Looks like Goebbels left his mark in the east.

Not surprising. Markov is a well-known apparatchik. This article will certainly have gone out with Putin's blessing. Is he preparing his own people for war? As Ive said before, Russia will not give up their military connections to the Black Sea and an independent non-Russia -led Ukraine threatens this.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Not surprising. Markov is a well-known apparatchik. This article will certainly have gone out with Putin's blessing. Is he preparing his own people for war? As Ive said before, Russia will not give up their military connections to the Black Sea and an independent non-Russia -led Ukraine threatens this.

But Sevastopol is leased to the Black Sea Fleet for another 30 or so years, so not chance of losing that base.