[Misc] Churchill

[Easy 10]

After seeing Darkest Hour this weekend, I've been listening to some of Churchill's speeches on YouTube. I wasn't fully aware of what a remarkable orator this man was, and thought I would bring it to the attention of the class. If you have the time and inclination, this half hour is a GREAT listen, especially towards the end...

[yt]jB5wZtV1MWM[/yt]

What General Vagon has called the Battle of France, is over. The Battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization. Upon it depends our own British life, and the long continuity of our institutions, and our empire. The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island, or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all of Europe may be freed, and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new dark age, made more sinister and perhaps more protracted by the likes of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duty, and so bare ourselves, that if the British Empire and its commonwealths last for a thousand years, men will still say, this was their finest hour.

Can't see Theresa May coming out with something like that, can you ?

 

[Mr Banana]

nah, he was a massive racist

 

[MattBackHome]

Didn't he get an impersonator to make half his speeches including the above, or is that bollocks?

 

[Mr Bridger]

nah, he was a massive racist

 

[jakarta]

nah, he was a massive racist

You are (as described) a Tedious Chump...

 

[Westdene Seagull]

nah, he was a massive racist

Whilst I don't condone in any way being a racist, many people were back then and I think Churchill might just have a little credit in the bank to balance it off.

 

[banjo]

Oh yes!!

 

[Baker lite]

After seeing Darkest Hour this weekend, I've been listening to some of Churchill's speeches on YouTube. I wasn't fully aware of what a remarkable orator this man was, and thought I would bring it to the attention of the class. If you have the time and inclination, this half hour is a GREAT listen, especially towards the end...

[yt]jB5wZtV1MWM[/yt]

What General Vagon has called the Battle of France, is over. The Battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization. Upon it depends our own British life, and the long continuity of our institutions, and our empire. The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island, or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all of Europe may be freed, and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new dark age, made more sinister and perhaps more protracted by the likes of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duty, and so bare ourselves, that if the British Empire and its commonwealths last for a thousand years, men will still say, this was their finest hour.

Can't see Theresa May coming out with something like that, can you ?

I fear that if this Country was to go to War again (and we’re often told we are in a war) rationing could be implemented again and politicians would make us give half our food to the enemy.There will simply never be another leader Like Churchill .Can you imagine if in WW2 we allowed the axis to walk among us,in plain sight,not only that but allowed them to take the war cabinet to court?
We really have become a world wide laughing stock and old Winnie must be spinning in his crypt.

 

[Hamilton]

After seeing Darkest Hour this weekend, I've been listening to some of Churchill's speeches on YouTube. I wasn't fully aware of what a remarkable orator this man was, and thought I would bring it to the attention of the class. If you have the time and inclination, this half hour is a GREAT listen, especially towards the end...

[yt]jB5wZtV1MWM[/yt]

What General Vagon has called the Battle of France, is over. The Battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization. Upon it depends our own British life, and the long continuity of our institutions, and our empire. The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island, or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all of Europe may be freed, and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new dark age, made more sinister and perhaps more protracted by the likes of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duty, and so bare ourselves, that if the British Empire and its commonwealths last for a thousand years, men will still say, this was their finest hour.

Can't see Theresa May coming out with something like that, can you ?

I enjoyed the film immensely, and Gary Oldman’s performance was excellent.

However, there are a few historical inaccuracies, from Churchill’s absence in the debate defending Chamberlain to the tired myth that Chamberlain was an appeaser who wanted peace with Hitler no matter what and to positioning Atlee as the rabble rouser in chief who demanded Chamberlain’s resignation in the Commons (he was in fact a ditherer who had to be cajoled into demanding the PM stand down.)

However, it was a enjoyable film. It’s just a shame that it has repositioned some of the truth for the convenience of entertainment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Whilst I don't condone in any way being a racist, many people were back then and I think Churchill might just have a little credit in the bank to balance it off.

Actually by the standards of the time he was still pretty racist. I think this whole argument feeds in to a need for us to frame people in absolute terms. So Churchill led us through world war 2 therefore he is GOOD and we can't have anything bad said about him. But to use the cliche , Hiltler was apparently very good with children and animals. The truth is good people do bad things and vice versa. Churchill had a chequered career up until the war. There is good reason he was in the political wilderness in the 1930's. Churchill was imo the most important leader Britain had in the 20th century , but that doens't gloss over what a complex character he was nor that he did and said some terrrible things.

 

[Simster]

Actually by the standards of the time he was still pretty racist. I think this whole argument feeds in to a need for us to frame people in absolute terms. So Churchill led us through world war 2 therefore he is GOOD and we can't have anything bad said about him. But to use the cliche , Hiltler was apparently very good with children and animals. The truth is good people do bad things and vice versa. Churchill had a chequered career up until the war. There is good reason he was in the political wilderness in the 1930's. Churchill was imo the most important leader Britain had in the 20th century , but that doens't gloss over what a complex character he was nor that he did and said some terrrible things.

Well said. Had there not been a second world war, history would have judged him quite badly. But there was, and without him we might never have pulled through.

You are right to say that he was more racist than most even back then, but he was still merely a product of his time.

 

[knocky1]

Addressing in 1937 the Palestine Royal Commission: "I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."

Poison gas used on Kurds and Afghans, the Black and Tans, all just part of the British Empire.

He did well as a leader defending our shores and that's about it.

 

[surlyseagull]

Yes Easy I found it a good listen and am hoping to see the film with my old Dad any time soon ..............Jeez why do people feel the need to change the very essence of a thread ffs .

 

[ManOfSussex]

Very good speech and well delivered - but it was made in the House of Commons and as there wasn't recording equipment present at Westminster in 1940 he didn't make it on the radio later on either on the evening of June 18th either as some believe. It was recorded after the war.

 

[A1X]

Didn't he get an impersonator to make half his speeches including the above, or is that bollocks?

Not one I've heard, but I do believe a lot of the speeches he made in Parliament were re-recorded at a later date (in some cases not until after the war was over). I'm pretty sure this one was one of the ones recorded in the days that followed. I think the famous recording of "the few" speech was done in 1946 or '47.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Actually by the standards of the time he was still pretty racist.

I would suggest the majority of white anglo saxons back then were racist to a point, possibly ignorant to the fact. He was no different I would imagine, I don't think they saw it as racism as such. Let's not forget we are talking nearly a century ago and values have changed immeasurably over that time.

 

[Mellotron]

nah, he was a massive racist

He can be both.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I enjoyed the film immensely, and Gary Oldman’s performance was excellent.

However, there are a few historical inaccuracies, from Churchill’s absence in the debate defending Chamberlain to the tired myth that Chamberlain was an appeaser who wanted peace with Hitler no matter what and to positioning Atlee as the rabble rouser in chief who demanded Chamberlain’s resignation in the Commons (he was in fact a ditherer who had to be cajoled into demanding the PM stand down.)

However, it was a enjoyable film. It’s just a shame that it has repositioned some of the truth for the convenience of entertainment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's one of the reasons I don't like films much as history is changed for the sake of entertainment, but then the film is taken as history by a lot of people.
Most Americans believe they recovered the Enigma machine, when bits of it were provided by the Polish underground. A complete Enigma machine was captured by HMS Bulldog in 1941.

 

[GT49er]

You are right to say that he was more racist than most even back then, but he was still merely a product of his time.

Doubt it. Were you actually around 'at that time', or have you just grown up in more progressive times, with a tendency to condemn anything that went before?

Addressing in 1937 the Palestine Royal Commission: "I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."

Evidence that he was 'more racist' than other people at the time? No - this would have been pretty much a majority opinion back then. The (absolutely correct) idea that black people are not an inferior race to white people is, in historical terms, a fairly recent concept. Go back two or three generations, and to the majority of people such an idea would have been unthinkable.
Be thankful that we have moved on - but it is a nonsense to judge the actions people took hundreds of years ago - even decades ago - by the standards of today.

 

[Simster]

Doubt it. Were you actually around 'at that time', or have you just grown up in more progressive times, with a tendency to condemn anything that went before?

What an odd thing to say. I am not condemning "anything that went before" at all, and even in the post of mine that you quoted, I categorically stated that he was a product of his time. What I will say is that he was more right wing than most, and those views were more prominent among right wing factions of that era.