[News] Christmas COVID rules fresh from the horses' mouths

[Notters]

Wait until your kids are in year 9 and you might detect a few flaws in that thinking.

You may have a point but I think it would've suited me at the time!

 

[keaton]

Has it been announced anywhere that you can't ignore these rules and obey the 'normal' ones? As in if we were in Tier 1, could you just keep meeting 6 indoors and not hugging?

 

[GOM]

Has it been announced anywhere that you can't ignore these rules and obey the 'normal' ones? As in if we were in Tier 1, could you just keep meeting 6 indoors and not hugging?

The rules in the tiers remain, the Xmas bit is in addition.

 

[Napper]

January is going to be fun

 

[Bold Seagull]

But the numbers of COVID cases in schools would suggest otherwise. Infected kids have been spreading the virus within families and to teaching staff. I don’t disagree that choices have had to be made but keeping schools open has co-incided with the second wave and that decision will have cost lives and made it more difficult to maintain the suppression of the virus that was being achieved in the Summer.

Interested to see the numbers on that as a governor at a local school. Interestingly sickness through other ailments is massively down because of the bubbles and cleaning going on. We've had Covid in our family, all tested positive, but I don't think it came from the schools, they acted quickly and I don't think any kids or teachers in my kid's bubbles got it either. That is just anecdotal of course.

Don't forget as well as schools opening, restaurants and bars had already opened, gyms and leisure also opened. A lot of variables to consider before we blame schools being open, unless the numbers are conclusive of course.

 

[Bozza]

Yep. I would personally have closed schools from year 9 upwards - as these kids should be capable of working from home and don't need looking after - but what do I know!

Unfortunately, there are a lot of kids, year 9 and upwards, who do not have the tools, nor the parental support, to study from home and would soon fall massively behind where they could and should be.

Additionally, many of these same kids are from vulnerable households where they may not receive sufficient food when remaining at home, and being at school affords them some decent nutrition each day.

 

[nicko31]

Unfortunately, there are a lot of kids, year 9 and upwards, who do not have the tools, nor the parental support, to study from home and would soon fall massively behind where they could and should be.

Additionally, many of these same kids are from vulnerable households where they may not receive sufficient food when remaining at home, and being at school affords them some decent nutrition each day.

Yes, its the one thing the government have got right, its essential to keep schools open. Some people have complicated lives, I live in a relatively affluent area and when remote learning is in place due to self isolation up take is still only 70%

 

[Mellotron]

Now in a massive argument with some mates over Messenger after one asked how everyone was interpreting the rules.

Anyone else had similar "Letter of the Law vs Spirit of the Law" arguments with friends or family?

 

[Weststander]

Interested to see the numbers on that as a governor at a local school. Interestingly sickness through other ailments is massively down because of the bubbles and cleaning going on. We've had Covid in our family, all tested positive, but I don't think it came from the schools, they acted quickly and I don't think any kids or teachers in my kid's bubbles got it either. That is just anecdotal of course.

Don't forget as well as schools opening, restaurants and bars had already opened, gyms and leisure also opened. A lot of variables to consider before we blame schools being open, unless the numbers are conclusive of course.

In my direct family I have a headteacher of a primary school and a teacher at a secondary school.

Despite apprehensions, they’ve found that it’s run smoothly since September. The one big pain, the eternal health and safety / PPE aspects, which they say is 100% necessary.

Separately our daughter is at senior school. The return to school proper has been incredible for her wellbeing. She’s a natural home-bird and loves her lay ins, but the 5 months at home took its toll.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Unfortunately, there are a lot of kids, year 9 and upwards, who do not have the tools, nor the parental support, to study from home and would soon fall massively behind where they could and should be.

Additionally, many of these same kids are from vulnerable households where they may not receive sufficient food when remaining at home, and being at school affords them some decent nutrition each day.

Interesting article in the NYTimes also saying a similar thing as to why European countries are keeping their schools open.

"Medical experts point to many things they now know that were unknown back in the spring: with proper precautions, the rate of coronavirus transmission in schools is relatively low, especially among the youngest students"

 

[nicko31]

So if my understanding is right, if you are in the top tier its still OK to travel outside you're area and then visit relatives in your bubble, ie tier system doesn't apply for 5 days?

 

[Notters]

Unfortunately, there are a lot of kids, year 9 and upwards, who do not have the tools, nor the parental support, to study from home and would soon fall massively behind where they could and should be.

Additionally, many of these same kids are from vulnerable households where they may not receive sufficient food when remaining at home, and being at school affords them some decent nutrition each day.

And those kids have always been able to remain in school haven't they? Didn't think I needed so mention it.

 

[Leas]

woken up yet ?

surely now you can all see this is all bull#### ! if this was a proper pandemic everything would be shut down and rationed , this is nothing less than getting people used to being controlled to make the true agenda smoother to implement

 

[Bold Seagull]

surely now you can all see this is all bull#### ! if this was a proper pandemic everything would be shut down and rationed , this is nothing less than getting people used to being controlled to make the true agenda smoother to implement

So this is a global conspiracy where every government has got together and coordinated a fake pandemic so they can universally control their populations?

That is amazing given the UK and EU can't even agree fishing rights...

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

From day one in every democracy, it’s always been unashamedly NOT just based on science.

If it was, Germans and Brits would’ve been kept locked up indoors as in Wuhan, food delivered by the army, until vaccines have been administered to all.

It’s openly been a balance of epidemiology, and:
1. What’s sustainable for a free thinking and free acting population? Will law/rules actually be taken seriously? Brits haven’t the compliant nature of the Chinese, Taiwanese and Koreans to 100% abide by laws for as long as it takes.
2. Mental health, the oppression of not seeing family and friends, from seeing all favourite activities closed.
3. Business and livelihoods. Economies would go bankrupt, countless businesses would sink without a trace, lifetime work destroyed, with an endless lockdown.

No doubt sadly there will be a further spike in cases and deaths, but there are many people including on NSC who said they were going to ignore the laws anyway.

To me this is a decent compromise. All four nations are in agreement.

I get, and support, the idea that a balance is needed. But only a few weeks after the government stated the primary need to get things under control, and on the same day when the deaths reached the level of mid-May, it seemed premature to announce the relaxation of the rules over Xmas and bizarre to also announce the return of football fans in just over a week’s time. As things currently stand, I feel the balance needs to swing towards locking down and not the other way.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Absolute disgrace of a decision. If our Government's handling of this pandemic wasn't disastrous enough, let's just add this crazy idea to the mix. You'd think they'd of learned something useful by now.

Nothing crazy about this at all, it’s up to you if you want to go visit family for 5 days.

If 90 year old granny doesn’t care and wants to see people at Christmas why shouldn’t she ?

 

[A1X]

This I think highlights why I think it made sense to impose the pre-Christmas lockdown before doing this, as with Thanksgiving in America they're expecting "a surge on a surge"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...raveling-thanksgiving-despite-urgent-warnings

 

[BBassic]

We managed best part of three whole pages before a conspiracy theorist popped up.

That's a new record, right?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I get, and support, the idea that a balance is needed. But only a few weeks after the government stated the primary need to get things under control, and on the same day when the deaths reached the level of mid-May, it seemed premature to announce the relaxation of the rules over Xmas and bizarre to also announce the return of football fans in just over a week’s time. As things currently stand, I feel the balance needs to swing towards locking down and not the other way.

They also admitted yesterday the Tiers had been working.

I must admit, I don’t get the fans thing

2000 fans in a 60000 seater stadium or a 9000 - surely a percentage would be better if you are doing it.

 

[Bozza]

I get, and support, the idea that a balance is needed. But only a few weeks after the government stated the primary need to get things under control, and on the same day when the deaths reached the level of mid-May, it seemed premature to announce the relaxation of the rules over Xmas and bizarre to also announce the return of football fans in just over a week’s time. As things currently stand, I feel the balance needs to swing towards locking down and not the other way.

Yet in Germany, now suffering record deaths across the whole pandemic, there are suggestions of similar loosening of restrictions over the Christmas period.

As I said, I believe governments are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

And as someone else said, most people will do the right thing where they can. The ****wits would be ignoring any guidelines regardless, because that's what ****wits do.