[News] Christmas COVID rules fresh from the horses' mouths

[worthingseagull123]

Good news.

 

[studio150]

Such a shit year, it was always going to end in tiers

It's just got worse, two new Mrs Brown's Boys episodes over Christmas.

PS - Your tier joke is funnier than everything in Mrs Brown's Boys

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I think if it's just one household, it will depend what tier you are in. After all, one household could go on holiday before lockdown 2. Meeting another household is less clear. Me and my wife have booked a cottage with one friend who lives alone. We may, or may not, be allowed to go - we'll see. But if we do, it means we can't also have a meal with my father-in-law (unless he comes with us.....).

And maybe also on which tier you are going to?

 

[WilburySeagull]

And maybe also on which tier you are going to?

If the accomodation is in tier 3 you shouldnt go.

 

[darkwolf666]

Right, feeling a bit Covid weary and have tried to explain this to the best of my knowledge to my wife.

The wife’s Mum and Dad look like they might spend Christmas Day at their sons house (wife’s brother), along with another couple. I have told her that means we won’t be able to see them over the Christmas period, as we aren’t part of that Christmas Day bubble, where the 3 family bubble will have been formed.

So in theory, those 3 couples who get together on Christmas Day won’t be able to mix with anyone else during the Christmas amnesty period!

Going to cause major rows* in big families - just as well I don’t like mine



* or major breaking of the rules!

 

[Seagull27]

Right, feeling a bit Covid weary and have tried to explain this to the best of my knowledge to my wife.

The wife’s Mum and Dad look like they might spend Christmas Day at their sons house (wife’s brother), along with another couple. I have told her that means we won’t be able to see them over the Christmas period, as we aren’t part of that Christmas Day bubble, where the 3 family bubble will have been formed.

So in theory, those 3 couples who get together on Christmas Day won’t be able to mix with anyone else during the Christmas amnesty period!

Going to cause major rows in big families - just as well I don’t like mine

Just had the same discussion - my wife's incorrect assumption was that we could only see two other households - my parents and her parents, separately - but then her parents could then have their own 3 house bubble - us and her sister's family. Which is not allowed, but it's really not very clear. I think a lot of people will get that wrong.

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[Iggle Piggle]

It's credit to a lot of people on here that they are prepared to follow the rules or simply have a quiet one. I just find it odd that my kids have mixed with over a 1000 kids in thier respective schools and I've got home from the office (where I can't work from home) and I'm supposed to choose 2 households to mix with over a 5 day period. On any given day I've normally got 2 degrees of separation from half of Warwickshire where I live. That's before we even start on these rules of 1000 people inside that's just about to come into play.

I'm not sure what I'm looking forward to seeing the back of more. Covid or the make it up as we go along rules that go with it.

 

[DIFFBROOK]

The bubble is 3 families. None of whom can see anyone else.

So for instance my wife and I can see both sets of parents and no more. Both sets of parents cannot see anyone else either.

My brother cannot see our parents.

I guess banning any family meet up would simply end as a free for all. These are pretty tight rules, but which give people the chance to see family. It will be down to the individual whether to use that opportunity, balancing risk.



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[atomised]

Right, feeling a bit Covid weary and have tried to explain this to the best of my knowledge to my wife.

The wife’s Mum and Dad look like they might spend Christmas Day at their sons house (wife’s brother), along with another couple. I have told her that means we won’t be able to see them over the Christmas period, as we aren’t part of that Christmas Day bubble, where the 3 family bubble will have been formed.

So in theory, those 3 couples who get together on Christmas Day won’t be able to mix with anyone else during the Christmas amnesty period!

Going to cause major rows* in big families - just as well I don’t like mine



* or major breaking of the rules!

I actually feel quite pleased that it is just us with no other family to worry about or make decisions over. The kids however have a contact arrangement with their biological father which relies on his parents supervising it. They didn't see their dad through either lockdown and I suspect if we end up in tier 2 that will continue. The one glimmer of hope for them was a contact date falling on the 27th but I fear if the grandparents have both sons and families over then the boys will miss out then too

 

[portlock seagull]

From day one in every democracy, it’s always been unashamedly NOT just based on science.

If it was, Germans and Brits would’ve been kept locked up indoors as in Wuhan, food delivered by the army, until vaccines have been administered to all.

It’s openly been a balance of epidemiology, and:
1. What’s sustainable for a free thinking and free acting population? Will law/rules actually be taken seriously? Brits haven’t the compliant nature of the Chinese, Taiwanese and Koreans to 100% abide by laws for as long as it takes.
2. Mental health, the oppression of not seeing family and friends, from seeing all favourite activities closed.
3. Business and livelihoods. Economies would go bankrupt, countless businesses would sink without a trace, lifetime work destroyed, with an endless lockdown.

No doubt sadly there will be a further spike in cases and deaths, but there are many people including on NSC who said they were going to ignore the laws anyway.

To me this is a decent compromise. All four nations are in agreement.

A better summary I’ve yet to read. Great post, a professional journalist would be proud of that as an opinion piece

 

[Bozza]

It's credit to a lot of people on here that they are prepared to follow the rules or simply have a quiet one. I just find it odd that my kids have mixed with over a 1000 kids in thier respective schools and I've got home from the office (where I can't work from home) and I'm supposed to choose 2 households to mix with over a 5 day period. On any given day I've normally got 2 degrees of separation from half of Warwickshire where I live. That's before we even start on these rules of 1000 people inside that's just about to come into play.

I'm not sure what I'm looking forward to seeing the back of more. Covid or the make it up as we go along rules that go with it.

It's really not odd though, and [MENTION=21158]Weststander[/MENTION] has already broadly covered this in his excellent post on this thread.

"The science" says everyone keeps the **** away from everyone else until such time as there is a vaccine. At the very extreme, as the Chinese implemented in Wuhan, that just doesn't work though in an openly-functioning society and economy such as ours.

So risks have to be assessed and decisions taken.

It has been decided that an open education sector is a very high priority so stuff has to give elsewhere to enable that. It's not a perfect science, unfortunately, and it's a matter of trying to keep as much educational, economic and social activity happening as possible whilst trying to keep a grip on viral spread.

If and when the virus starts to spread more widely, more restrictions have to be brought into play in order to keep it in check.

 

[Weststander]

It's really not odd though, and [MENTION=21158]Weststander[/MENTION] has already broadly covered this in his excellent post on this thread.

"The science" says everyone keeps the **** away from everyone else until such time as there is a vaccine. At the very extreme, as the Chinese implemented in Wuhan, that just doesn't work though in an openly-functioning society and economy such as ours.

So risks have to be assessed and decisions taken.

It has been decided that an open education sector is a very high priority so stuff has to give elsewhere to enable that. It's not a perfect science, unfortunately, and it's a matter of trying to keep as much educational, economic and social activity happening as possible whilst trying to keep a grip on viral spread.

If and when the virus starts to spread more widely, more restrictions have to be brought into play in order to keep it in check.

.... that works. Schools have stayed open over the last 2.5 weeks, whilst pubs, restaurants, some small shops and gyms have closed. Low and behold, new CV19 case numbers are falling, rather than the exponential rise seen up until this quasi lockdown. Our per million rolling daily death toll, is currently far lower than in several other European nations.

Proving that kids can get their vital real world schooling, interaction with classmates and a healthy mind, without being the conduits to a spike in avoidable deaths.

They seldom get praise, but HM scientists and public health experts have made a good call here.

 

[darkwolf666]

.... that works. Schools have stayed open over the last 2.5 weeks, whilst pubs, restaurants, some small shops and gyms have closed. Low and behold, new CV19 case numbers are falling, rather than the exponential rise seen up until this quasi lockdown. Our per million rolling daily death toll, is currently far lower than in several other European nations.

Proving that kids can get their vital real world schooling, interaction with classmates and a healthy mind, without being the conduits to a spike in avoidable deaths.

They seldom get praise, but HM scientists and public health experts have made a good call here.

And yet it’s not all plain sailing...

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-almost-three-in-four-secondary-schools-have-students-at-home-self-isolating-12141117

There is a belief in some quarters that the push to keep schools open at any cost was more about enabling parents to return to work and less about children’s education. Many children are going to be penalised, come exams next year, purely based on how much school time and direct teaching they have missed, unless the government acts soon and makes a fairer decision than simply a 3 week delay in exams.

 

[Notters]

None of our family are getting together this Christmas even though the rules say we can do. Better to be safe than sorry and it's only 1 year that we'll miss out.

Actually I'm quite looking forward to a quiet few days just with Mrs B. We'll still have a lovely day with plenty of beer, and the other half is a great cook. We'll zoom the kids after the Queens speech!

Sounds like bliss. But we've had nine months with two screaming under fives with basically no respite whilst I'm also working 50 hours a week. You're now making me feel guilty for wanting some family here for support for a couple of days.

 

[keaton]

.... that works. Schools have stayed open over the last 2.5 weeks, whilst pubs, restaurants, some small shops and gyms have closed. Low and behold, new CV19 case numbers are falling, rather than the exponential rise seen up until this quasi lockdown. Our per million rolling daily death toll, is currently far lower than in several other European nations.

Proving that kids can get their vital real world schooling, interaction with classmates and a healthy mind, without being the conduits to a spike in avoidable deaths.

They seldom get praise, but HM scientists and public health experts have made a good call here.

I'm not sure that makes complete sense or I've misunderstood. Didn't anyone think there'd be a spike with everything else closed? Up until Sept the government were trying to argue opening schools wouldn't increase the infection rate, that's clearly not correct

 

[sparkie]

I'm not sure that makes complete sense or I've misunderstood. Didn't anyone think there'd be a spike with everything else closed? Up until Sept the government were trying to argue opening schools wouldn't increase the infection rate, that's clearly not correct

Undoubtedly less deaths would have occurred if schools had shut.

 

[Notters]

Undoubtedly less deaths would have occurred if schools had shut.

Yep. I would personally have closed schools from year 9 upwards - as these kids should be capable of working from home and don't need looking after - but what do I know!

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

.... that works. Schools have stayed open over the last 2.5 weeks, whilst pubs, restaurants, some small shops and gyms have closed. Low and behold, new CV19 case numbers are falling, rather than the exponential rise seen up until this quasi lockdown. Our per million rolling daily death toll, is currently far lower than in several other European nations.

Proving that kids can get their vital real world schooling, interaction with classmates and a healthy mind, without being the conduits to a spike in avoidable deaths.

They seldom get praise, but HM scientists and public health experts have made a good call here.

But the numbers of COVID cases in schools would suggest otherwise. Infected kids have been spreading the virus within families and to teaching staff. I don’t disagree that choices have had to be made but keeping schools open has co-incided with the second wave and that decision will have cost lives and made it more difficult to maintain the suppression of the virus that was being achieved in the Summer.

 

[atomised]

But the numbers of COVID cases in schools would suggest otherwise. Infected kids have been spreading the virus within families and to teaching staff. I don’t disagree that choices have had to be made but keeping schools open has co-incided with the second wave and that decision will have cost lives and made it more difficult to maintain the suppression of the virus that was being achieved in the Summer.

Ours, by the end of this current 2 week school closure (supposedly down to 1 confirmed case though I'm sceptical) will have missed 5 weeks each since they returned in September. Each of their bubbles have been sent home at different times but the school has insisted they both stay home each time. Additionally it's a school that opted for a 2 week half term.
End result is 2 very confused kids who may as well not have gone back

 

[Silverhatch]

Yep. I would personally have closed schools from year 9 upwards - as these kids should be capable of working from home and don't need looking after - but what do I know!

Wait until your kids are in year 9 and you might detect a few flaws in that thinking.