[Misc] Christians seem to be really good people

[Insel affe]

Wow.
The way you talk. Have a look at some of your posts. What I say is extremely mild compared to the way you write.
That's what's pushed me to raise my tone slightly, and boy look at the reaction.

What is the historical evidence that Jesus Christ lived and died?

Today some claim that Jesus is just an idea, rather than a real historical figure, but there is a good deal of written evidence for his existence 2,000 years ago

www.theguardian.com

Oh piss off.

 

[Blues Guitarist]

Wow.
The way you talk. Have a look at some of your posts. What I say is extremely mild compared to the way you write.
That's what's pushed me to raise my tone slightly, and boy look at the reaction.

What is the historical evidence that Jesus Christ lived and died?

Today some claim that Jesus is just an idea, rather than a real historical figure, but there is a good deal of written evidence for his existence 2,000 years ago

www.theguardian.com

I don't know why you say "Wow" - your behaviour is the definition of zealotry.

Interesting article you cite:

"In the earliest literature of the Jewish Rabbis, Jesus was denounced as the illegitimate child of Mary and a sorcerer. Among pagans, the satirist Lucian and philosopher Celsus dismissed Jesus as a scoundrel"

"a recent survey discovered that 40% of adults in England did not believe that Jesus was a real historical figure."

Talking about the Turin Shroud, the article says "it is hard to find historians who regard this material as serious archaeological data".

 

[kuzushi]

Oh piss off.

That's the best you can do.
You have no argument, so you just rant and swear, which is silly.
What you need to do is find a good church and start going there on Sundays, and also read the Bible.

 

[kuzushi]

Talking about the Turin Shroud, the article says "it is hard to find historians who regard this material as serious archaeological data".

It does say that, doesn't it.
I don't know whether that's actually true or not, but I do know that quite a few scientists do take it seriously.

 

[Badger]

That's the best you can do.
You have no argument, so you just rant and swear, which is silly.
What you need to do is find a good church and start going there on Sundays, and also read the Bible.

The irony

 

[kuzushi]

The irony

Well, isn't it silly to rant and swear? We're just having a discussion. I apologise if my use of the word 'silly' has offended anyone.
And what's wrong with suggesting that he go to church and read the Bible?

 

[kuzushi]

The irony

Oh yes, badger, what you can do is go through this whole thread and find all the times I've been rude to anyone.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There's more meaning in Blackmore's guitar tone than in most rock or pop lyrics.
I think Gillan at least just picked words that fitted the rhythm of the song. There's a lovely little introduction by Jon Lord to the video for Stormbringer (which Coverdale will have written the lyrics for) where he says "not my cup of tea lyrically... what is a stormbringer, actually?"

Oh, I'm not saying I don't like them. I love them.

I'd be a liar if I said I don't.

Like a blind man.
On a hill.
Standing very still.

 

[Badger]

Oh yes, badger, what you can do is go through this whole thread and find all the times I've been rude to anyone.

You've completely missed my point. I was suggesting most people on this thread would find the idea of going to church and reading the bible a lot more silly than swearing and ranting.

Also, just because you don't swear and rant, doesn't mean you're not being rude to people.

 

[kuzushi]

You've completely missed my point. I was suggesting most people on this thread would find the idea of going to church and reading the bible a lot more silly than swearing and ranting.

Also, just because you don't swear and rant, doesn't mean you're not being rude to people.

Really? Who've I been rude to?
I'd like to know.

Edit: thanks for clarifying your point

 

[kuzushi]

I was suggesting most people on this thread would find the idea of going to church and reading the bible a lot more silly than swearing and ranting.

Ah yes, what a silly book the Bible is:

Ephesians 4:26
‘In your anger do not sin’: do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,
Luke 6:31
Do to others as you would have them do to you.
Ephesians 6:1
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.

1 Corinthians 13
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonour others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails.​

And imagine going to a place where there are people who take this sort of thing seriously...

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I didn't know that had been covered by Zeppelin. I suppose that makes sense as they ripped off pretty much all country blues musicians of note. (Not slagging them off Zep fans. They made something worthwhile and interesting themselves). You're probably right about the feminizing power of punk. There's still a long way to go in the music industry, as there is in society in general, but there has been more movement in the right direction since the late 70s than there was before.

Interesting that you should have ended up at a point where lyrics are of less concern. I struggle with that a bit. I'm not a musician and my background is more literature than science and I sometimes get a bit lost without the centering influence of coherent verbal communication. I can do jazz, because, even with the Ornette Coleman end of stuff, there seem to be recognisable refrains that I can hang on to. When electronic stuff gets too esoteric or too complicated I lose concentration. My attention span and desire for the next song make the four minute pop song ideal for me. My mind seems too trained in the rational to cope with much of the etheral. Unlike those who find fulfillment in the subject of this thread, I'm a bit put off by the metaphysical. I can certainly experience it, but I can get nowhere near explaining it. It is, as you indicate, so subjective and personal for all of us. I distrust attempted explanation of it. Generally finding it either unconvincing or self serving. It's like the old trope about how explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog - nobody laughs* and the frog dies.


* - Unless, of course, it's Stewart Lee deliberately overexplaining the joke.

Very good. I think we may need to find some comfy leather chairs, a bottle of Benraich, access to the history of music (Youtube will do) and some very excellent speakers. Channel 4 can film it.

I'm not saying I don't like lyrics, but when it comes to actual singing, at a gig, sorry but I want to join in. For that nothing beats VNVNation. Seen them around 5 times. Electronic music and everyone singing like they are at the football. Emotional.

I have derailed this thread enough so won't post anything.

 

[kuzushi]

Matthew 5:44
But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

 

[Insel affe]

That's the best you can do.
You have no argument, so you just rant and swear, which is silly.
What you need to do is find a good church and start going there on Sundays, and also read the Bible.

I will never set foot in a church to worship your false god.
he is false, just like you.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I just put 'Gertcha' by Chas & Dave on - I don't want to derail this thread, but that's better than God folk.

 

[beorhthelm]

Let me ask you, you do know that Jesus lived and was crucified, don't you? I hope you're not that confused that you aren't clear about that much.

no, i dont know this. without contemporay account, there is no evidence. an event so monumentous passes by anyone present or at least around at the time without writing, tells me it didn't happen.

 

[Insel affe]

Matthew 5:44
But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Do not prey for me, it’s an insult.
I do not need your gods forgiveness, to be honest feck him.
I’ve not persecuted you, at all, I’ve disagreed with you.
that is not persecution.

 

[Badger]

Ah yes, what a silly book the Bible is:

Ephesians 4:26
‘In your anger do not sin’: do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,
Luke 6:31
Do to others as you would have them do to you.
Ephesians 6:1
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.

1 Corinthians 13​

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonour others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.​

8 Love never fails.​

And imagine going to a place where there are people who take this sort of thing seriously...

Ah, the textbook response of just throwing out random bible quotes as if that somehow proves something. The vast majority of which are just common sense and don't require a book written hundreds of years ago.

I will pick you up on: "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right." I would say children should question their parents, not just blindly obey them.

Anyway, I've just finished work and now I'm off to the pub. That's my preference for meeting up with likeminded people, rather than going to a place where people take the bible seriously.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

You've completely missed my point. I was suggesting most people on this thread would find the idea of going to church and reading the bible a lot more silly than swearing and ranting.

Also, just because you don't swear and rant, doesn't mean you're not being rude to people.

I like going to church when I want a good laugh.

 

[BadFish]

I don't know, they shouldn't be, really.
Mind you, there's a difference between being scared of death and scared of dying. Someone might not be scared of death, because they know it's going to be fine*, but they might be concerned about what the experience of dying is going to be like. It's only really the body that dies, anyway. The real part of the person is eternal.

Edit to say: obviously being fine is contingent upon having surrendered to Jesus during your time on earth, which is the time ordained by God for us during which he may be found.

One of the things I love most about God is all his rules.

He's a real rule guy.

To get back to the fear of dying thing. I suspect he fear is that we may miss one of the rules. Perhaps this is why our lives flash before our eyes? A kind of edited highlights so you remember the day you f***ed up just before meeting St Peter.

St Peter "so sorry, did you see it?'
Christian "yeah, that day I go drunk and put my leather jacket on with cotton trousers'
St Peter with a frown ' . . . Then went out and ate shellfish'
Christian 'makes you wonder why he invented leather jackets. But what about all the time I spent spreading the word, all the charity work, all the money we raised'
St Peter: 'you knew the rules better than anyone else vicar'

God is brilliant.