[Misc] Christians seem to be really good people

[BadFish]

Don't tempt me. You know I'll only do it.

But in fact it would be difficult. Too many threads. Too many cul de sacs.

Given I can't hear you voice, I'll assume you not simply taking the piss

No, absolutely wasn't taking the piss, I find this stuff fascinating, especially from someone who was there a the time of punk. I'm going to try this idea myself and then post the idea on a couple of music FB groups I'm on and then maybe on here.

Alternatively I will hyperfocus on the idea for a few days and then forget about it entirely

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

No, absolutely wasn't taking the piss, I find this stuff fascinating, especially from someone who was there a the time of punk. I'm going to try this idea myself and then post the idea on a couple of music FB groups I'm on and then maybe on here.

Alternatively I will hyperfocus on the idea for a few days and then forget about it entirely

OK! Good.

I think I could probably map how I got to artist/genre X, but this would be more about how I was exposed to things, rather than how my tastes* evolved.

That would be the light programme (pre-radio 1), the five-o-clock club, Lucky Luxembourg, Tony Blackburn (yes), John Peel, Bob Harris, Pete Drummond, my school mates (including @monty uk), the NME, my flatmate Chris at uni, more John Peel, then CITR (Vancouver), more Peel, then Napster and Audiogalaxy, then youtube. In the last 10 years I'm happy to say that the youtube algorithm keeps me well clear of music I don't like.

(I hate six music, by the way - too 'musicianly'. And there is little for me to see on Later with Jules Holland (one act every two shows, nah, too busy for that). You can shove your Seasick Steve, your Sir Tom Jones, and your Blind Lemon Shandy Levine up your arse).

*I can't explain why I like anything other than it makes me feel something, anything from a desire to sing along, to shock and awe, with everything in between. And I'm driven by the usual pattern of obsessiveness and completism that is common among the autistic.

 

[Bold Seagull]

OK! Good.

I think I could probably map how I got to artist/genre X, but this would be more about how I was exposed to things, rather than how my tastes* evolved.

That would be the light programme (pre-radio 1), the five-o-clock club, Lucky Luxembourg, Tony Blackburn (yes), John Peel, Bob Harris, Pete Drummond, my school mates (including @monty uk), the NME, my flatmate Chris at uni, more John Peel, then CITR (Vancouver), more Peel, then Napster and Audiogalaxy, then youtube. In the last 10 years I'm happy to say that the youtube algorithm keeps me well clear of music I don't like.

(I hate six music, by the way - too 'musicianly'. And there is little for me to see on Later with Jules Holland (one act every two shows, nah, too busy for that). You can shove your Seasick Steve, your Sir Tom Jones, and your Blind Lemon Shandy Levine up your arse).

*I can't explain why I like anything other than it makes me feel something, anything from a desire to sing along, to shock and awe, with everything in between. And I'm driven by the usual pattern of obsessiveness and completism that is common among the autistic.

Did you ever see / listen to Red Letter Day, Portsmouth punk band, supported UK Subs, The Damned, The Buzzcocks quite a bit, on the John Peel show every now and again. I got my love of football culture from thelr lead singing Ade Oakley.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Did you ever see / listen to Red Letter Day, Portsmouth punk band, supported UK Subs, The Damned, The Buzzcocks quite a bit, on the John Peel show every now and again. I got my love of football culture from thelr lead singing Ade Oakley.

Never heard of them. I just looked them up. Wikipedia says they formed in 1984 (when I was living in Canada). I had stopped listening to new bands that sound like that by around 78. I have a singles collection with all the early bands - Damned, Clash, Pistols, Eater, The Boys, Buzzcocks, Ramones, Saints, Banshees, Richard Hell, Jonny Moped . . . . by 78/9 I was increasingly drawn to style, synthesizers . . . by the time I saw Magazine, Wire and the Birthday Party in the late 70s, there was no turning back. I will hold up my hand and admit to massive musical snobbery back then, exacerbated by my flatmate Chris who insisted that all my heritage affections (VDGG, Caravan, Beach Boys) exemplified my naffness and lack of cutting edge

I'm glad you enjoyed Red Letter Day. There were some punk bands that came through in the early 80s that were decent, but I was not in the right midframe to listen at the time. They remind me a bit DOA (from Vancouver - check out World War Three, it's a complete banger). I was off on a Cocteau Twins, Danse Society, And Also The Trees, Legendary Ping Dots miasma by then.

I used to take great stock of timelines and originality, but this doesn't interest me anymore. One of my great discoveries over the last few years is bands from the 80s and 90s I'd never heard of that were probably laughed at back then for lack of originality. But I love them. Lowlife, Paralysed Age, The Burning Skies of Elysium and many more. The latter, from the 80s have a singer who sounds like a cross between Ian Asbury and Kirk Brandon. I absolutely love it but I bet they were ridiculed in 1987.

To make a link with the religion thread (apologies if this is the religion thread and I have derailed it), Jesus had a tiny following at the time, and only really meant anything after he was dead. Likewise Ian Curtis. And I would like to hope, likewise, countless other brilliant acts that were overlooked at the time because their faces didn't fit. If you do anything else frivolous today, listen to some tracks by the Burning Shies of Elysium, and Lowlife

 

[Stato]

OK! Good.

I think I could probably map how I got to artist/genre X, but this would be more about how I was exposed to things, rather than how my tastes* evolved.

That would be the light programme (pre-radio 1), the five-o-clock club, Lucky Luxembourg, Tony Blackburn (yes), John Peel, Bob Harris, Pete Drummond, my school mates (including @monty uk), the NME, my flatmate Chris at uni, more John Peel, then CITR (Vancouver), more Peel, then Napster and Audiogalaxy, then youtube. In the last 10 years I'm happy to say that the youtube algorithm keeps me well clear of music I don't like.

(I hate six music, by the way - too 'musicianly'. And there is little for me to see on Later with Jules Holland (one act every two shows, nah, too busy for that). You can shove your Seasick Steve, your Sir Tom Jones, and your Blind Lemon Shandy Levine up your arse).

*I can't explain why I like anything other than it makes me feel something, anything from a desire to sing along, to shock and awe, with everything in between. And I'm driven by the usual pattern of obsessiveness and completism that is common among the autistic.

I've been off this thread, I put him on ignore, but it seems to have got far more interesting while I've been away. I'm far more accepting of roots and blues stuff than you are, but have to agree with you about Seasick Steve. Blues for people who don't listen to blues, like Mumford is folk for those who don't listen to folk.

On another note, I'm not sure why so many blues singers are 'Blind' something. Other singers with disabilities don't seem to put their disability in their name, but there is Blind Lemon Jefferson, Blind Willie McTell, The Blind Boys of Alabama etc. and, to try to bring it back to the thread subject: Blind Willie Johnson. I recently bought a secondhand CD of him and the blurb on the back explained his influence on gospel musicians like the Soul Stirrers. There was a quote from Ry Cooder describing his sound as 'transcendent'. "Oh yeah" I scoffed. Then I played it.



Probably not your sort of thing, but it moved me, and I do get the impression that you, like me, get the spiritual succor that we all need, not from religion, but from the arts and from music in particular. I have no belief in the mystical, but am not going to criticise those who do, particularly if it inspires them to artistic endeavours expressed so brilliantly that they have the wordless power to move even those of us who don't believe. It's just a shame that the power this provides has been misued so often throughout human history, particularly to bolster male power over women and children.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I've been off this thread, I put him on ignore, but it seems to have got far more interesting while I've been away. I'm far more accepting of roots and blues stuff than you are, but have to agree with you about Seasick Steve. Blues for people who don't listen to blues, like Mumford is folk for those who don't listen to folk.

On another note, I'm not sure why so many blues singers are 'Blind' something. Other singers with disabilities don't seem to put their disability in their name, but there is Blind Lemon Jefferson, Blind Willie McTell, The Blind Boys of Alabama etc. and, to try to bring it back to the thread subject: Blind Willie Johnson. I recently bought a secondhand CD of him and the blurb on the back explained his influence on gospel musicians like the Soul Stirrers. There was a quote from Ry Cooder describing his sound as 'transcendent'. "Oh yeah" I scoffed. Then I played it.



Probably not your sort of thing, but it moved me, and I do get the impression that you, like me, get the spiritual succor that we all need, not from religion, but from the arts and from music in particular. I have no belief in the mystical, but am not going to criticise those who do, particularly if it inspires them to artistic endeavours expressed so brilliantly that they have the wordless power to move even those of us who don't believe. It's just a shame that the power this provides has been misued so often throughout human history, particularly to bolster male power over women and children.

Hello again.

Was that track covered by Led Zep? I know what you mean about power misused. My ex wife is 10 years older than me and lived in California in the late 60s with hippy types, and told me it was absolute chauvinism, with the women doing all the chores, etc. Bolstered male power for sure. Reflected in music lyrics.

Lyrically I don't think mainstream pop started to become liberated till the late 70s (via punk and post punk). Yes we had the poets like Dylan and arguably Jim Morrison. But most of it was 'baby I miss you' 'baby do what I tell you' stuff. The old blues was much the same, with oodles of poverty and booze thrown in.

These days most of the new music I listen to has no vocals, or distorted muffled vocals, or foreign language vocals. I posted a Deep Purple track on track of the day a few days ago. Great track but lyrically it is embarrassing.

Back to your first point, yes of course, the arts. And football. The arts, though.....books, but nothing too deep. Still waiting for the last Dark Materials volume....and music. At least three hours of music a day. I love dark fantasy literature and music. I just like it. As a scientist I can't bear the idea of rationality governing the arts. I want to be moved, and surprised. I can tolerate occasionally being disturbed. But I can't tolerate the anodyne, the fake (unless it is meant to be fake), the lazy, the patronizing or the musicianly (not the same a virtuosity - I have many Mahavishnu albums - I mean shit like John Miles).

But it's all subjective and other tastes and attitudes are available.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Was that track covered by Led Zep?

Yep. On Presence.

 

[Baldseagull]

On another note, I'm not sure why so many blues singers are 'Blind' something. Other singers with disabilities don't seem to put their disability in their name, but there is Blind Lemon Jefferson, Blind Willie McTell, The Blind Boys of Alabama etc.

Like Deaf, or Mute?

 

[Stato]

Like Deaf, or Mute?

Not all disabilities are sensory though, and I don't know of any blues musicians with nicknames related to physical disabilities.

I suppose that there was a history of teaching blind children music, as it may give them a profession that wouldn't be hampered by their disability. I believe that there was a tradition of teaching piano tuning too. Everyone needs a USP though and apparently there were some sighted musicians who pretended to be blind because of the cachet that the association with other well known blind musicians could bring.

This bloke was apparently nicknamed 'Bogus' Ben Covington because he used to feign blindness!

 

[Stato]

Hello again.

Was that track covered by Led Zep? I know what you mean about power misused. My ex wife is 10 years older than me and lived in California in the late 60s with hippy types, and told me it was absolute chauvinism, with the women doing all the chores, etc. Bolstered male power for sure. Reflected in music lyrics.

Lyrically I don't think mainstream pop started to become liberated till the late 70s (via punk and post punk). Yes we had the poets like Dylan and arguably Jim Morrison. But most of it was 'baby I miss you' 'baby do what I tell you' stuff. The old blues was much the same, with oodles of poverty and booze thrown in.

These days most of the new music I listen to has no vocals, or distorted muffled vocals, or foreign language vocals. I posted a Deep Purple track on track of the day a few days ago. Great track but lyrically it is embarrassing.

Back to your first point, yes of course, the arts. And football. The arts, though.....books, but nothing too deep. Still waiting for the last Dark Materials volume....and music. At least three hours of music a day. I love dark fantasy literature and music. I just like it. As a scientist I can't bear the idea of rationality governing the arts. I want to be moved, and surprised. I can tolerate occasionally being disturbed. But I can't tolerate the anodyne, the fake (unless it is meant to be fake), the lazy, the patronizing or the musicianly (not the same a virtuosity - I have many Mahavishnu albums - I mean shit like John Miles).

But it's all subjective and other tastes and attitudes are available.

I didn't know that had been covered by Zeppelin. I suppose that makes sense as they ripped off pretty much all country blues musicians of note. (Not slagging them off Zep fans. They made something worthwhile and interesting themselves). You're probably right about the feminizing power of punk. There's still a long way to go in the music industry, as there is in society in general, but there has been more movement in the right direction since the late 70s than there was before.

Interesting that you should have ended up at a point where lyrics are of less concern. I struggle with that a bit. I'm not a musician and my background is more literature than science and I sometimes get a bit lost without the centering influence of coherent verbal communication. I can do jazz, because, even with the Ornette Coleman end of stuff, there seem to be recognisable refrains that I can hang on to. When electronic stuff gets too esoteric or too complicated I lose concentration. My attention span and desire for the next song make the four minute pop song ideal for me. My mind seems too trained in the rational to cope with much of the etheral. Unlike those who find fulfillment in the subject of this thread, I'm a bit put off by the metaphysical. I can certainly experience it, but I can get nowhere near explaining it. It is, as you indicate, so subjective and personal for all of us. I distrust attempted explanation of it. Generally finding it either unconvincing or self serving. It's like the old trope about how explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog - nobody laughs* and the frog dies.


* - Unless, of course, it's Stewart Lee deliberately overexplaining the joke.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

Sorry to derail back to the original topic but why are people who believe in god just as shit scared as the rest of us of dying. Surely they should be looking forward
to joining their god in heaven?

 

[Questions]

I used to work for a chap called Christian.
He was a drunk and an adulterer.

 

[kuzushi]

Sorry to derail back to the original topic but why are people who believe in god just as shit scared as the rest of us of dying. Surely they should be looking forward
to joining their god in heaven?

I don't know, they shouldn't be, really.
Mind you, there's a difference between being scared of death and scared of dying. Someone might not be scared of death, because they know it's going to be fine*, but they might be concerned about what the experience of dying is going to be like. It's only really the body that dies, anyway. The real part of the person is eternal.

Edit to say: obviously being fine is contingent upon having surrendered to Jesus during your time on earth, which is the time ordained by God for us during which he may be found.

 

[kuzushi]

I don't know, they shouldn't be, really.
Mind you, there's a difference between being scared of death and scared of dying. Someone might not be scared of death, because they know it's going to be fine*, but they might be concerned about what the experience of dying is going to be like. It's only really the body that dies, anyway. The real part of the person is eternal.

Edit to say: obviously being fine is contingent upon having surrendered to Jesus during your time on earth, which is the time ordained by God for us during which he may be found.

Thought it would be good to post this for those interested in the Shroud:

 

[Bold Seagull]

I was really hoping kuzushi's return to this thread was going to be to say they really liked The Damned.

 

[Goldstone1976]

I used to work for a chap called Christian.
He was a drunk and an adulterer.

I used to ride pillion on the back of a R100S to the Goldstone driven by a chap called Christian. He was a chaplain.

 

[kuzushi]

I was really hoping kuzushi's return to this thread was going to be to say they really liked The Damned.

I do, and I really hope you repent before it's too late.

 

[Triggaaar]

I don't know, they shouldn't be, really.
Mind you, there's a difference between being scared of death and scared of dying. Someone might not be scared of death, because they know it's going to be fine*, but they might be concerned about what the experience of dying is going to be like. It's only really the body that dies, anyway. The real part of the person is eternal.

In your opinion.

Edit to say: obviously being fine is contingent upon having surrendered to Jesus during your time on earth, which is the time ordained by God for us during which he may be found.

Other religions are available.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I do, and I really hope you repent before it's too late.

Yep, I'd be able to join Jimmy Savile, and all those abusing priests and Bishops that covered their tracks, because God would forgiven them when they repent. Child murderers, rapists, all in heaven because they repent and believe in the Lord even if only with their final breathes. Someone who leads an honest charitable life doesn't get in because they didn't even know about Jesus. Enjoy your eternal party with the rapists and murderers. Jim'll Fix it for you.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Hello again.

Was that track covered by Led Zep? I know what you mean about power misused. My ex wife is 10 years older than me and lived in California in the late 60s with hippy types, and told me it was absolute chauvinism, with the women doing all the chores, etc. Bolstered male power for sure. Reflected in music lyrics.

Lyrically I don't think mainstream pop started to become liberated till the late 70s (via punk and post punk). Yes we had the poets like Dylan and arguably Jim Morrison. But most of it was 'baby I miss you' 'baby do what I tell you' stuff. The old blues was much the same, with oodles of poverty and booze thrown in.

These days most of the new music I listen to has no vocals, or distorted muffled vocals, or foreign language vocals. I posted a Deep Purple track on track of the day a few days ago. Great track but lyrically it is embarrassing.

Back to your first point, yes of course, the arts. And football. The arts, though.....books, but nothing too deep. Still waiting for the last Dark Materials volume....and music. At least three hours of music a day. I love dark fantasy literature and music. I just like it. As a scientist I can't bear the idea of rationality governing the arts. I want to be moved, and surprised. I can tolerate occasionally being disturbed. But I can't tolerate the anodyne, the fake (unless it is meant to be fake), the lazy, the patronizing or the musicianly (not the same a virtuosity - I have many Mahavishnu albums - I mean shit like John Miles).

But it's all subjective and other tastes and attitudes are available.

There's more meaning in Blackmore's guitar tone than in most rock or pop lyrics.
I think Gillan at least just picked words that fitted the rhythm of the song. There's a lovely little introduction by Jon Lord to the video for Stormbringer (which Coverdale will have written the lyrics for) where he says "not my cup of tea lyrically... what is a stormbringer, actually?"