[Misc] Christians seem to be really good people

[Mustafa II]

Not it hasn't
No it isn't
Who cares?

Assembling falsehoods in order to allow speculation on another falsehood is not a good look.

The universe is infinite. We are but a tiny invisible spec in it. We have no idea what the whole looks like, or whether there is life elsewhere.
The universe was not designed. The hand of god is not in it. That's childish nonsense.
What people believe is neither here nor there and not fit for discussion. I believe you are deluded. All you can do in a belief contest is to deny my belief. Boring.

There is broad agreement amongst physicists and cosmologists and other experts that the universe is fine-tuned for life to exist and flourish, the question is how or why?

You just need to look around you, look at the laws of the universe - the physics (the laws) that allow this reality to happen. The laws of chemistry that allow the universe to be utlitised in the most practical and important of ways - the biology that allows life to flourish. It is impeccably perfect, that no human being could come close to designing such a flawless set of rules.

One could argue that the fine-tuned universe is the result of an infinite number of failed universes, that nobody gets to exist in, and we are fortunate enough to find ourselves in this one... however could randomness in an infinite realm really achieve such perfection as this?

Of course a barely comprehendable conscious entity like a God isn't the only theory - but there is no denying that 'design' is one of the more plausible explanations for the perfection of this fine-tuned universe... if a God didn't design it, then what did?

 

[Bold Seagull]

There is broad agreement amongst physicists and cosmologists and other experts that the universe is fine-tuned for life to exist and flourish, the question is how or why?

You just need to look around you, look at the laws of the universe - the physics (the laws) that allow this reality to happen. The laws of chemistry that allow the universe to be utlitised in the most practical and important of ways - the biology that allows life to flourish. It is impeccably perfect, that no human being could come close to designing such a flawless set of rules.

One could argue that the fine-tuned universe is the result of an infinite number of failed universes, that nobody gets to exist in, and we are fortunate enough to find ourselves in this one... however could randomness in an infinite realm really achieve such perfection as this?

Of course a barely comprehendable conscious entity like a God isn't the only theory - but there is no denying that 'design' is one of the more plausible explanations for the perfection of this fine-tuned universe... if a God didn't design it, then what did?

why is it practical and important? what importance above everything else in the universe does life have? Importance for us as we exist, but is it of no importance because there are literally billions of interactions between elements, sub atomic particles and fields, and 95% of stuff we don't even know. Just because we are doesn't make it any more or any less important than everything else. We're just a consequence of interactions, chemistry and biology, and there are infinite other interactions that may not have led to life, but led to many other things.

 

[Mustafa II]

why is it practical and important? what importance above everything else in the universe does life have? Importance for us as we exist, but is it of no importance because there are literally billions of interactions between elements, sub atomic particles and fields, and 95% of stuff we don't even know. Just because we are doesn't make it any more or any less important than everything else. We're just a consequence of interactions, chemistry and biology, and there are infinite other interactions that may not have led to life, but led to many other things.

The periodic table is a beautiful & divine example of the importance and practicality of the rules of the universe.

Every (natural) element has a role to play, a purpose, whether it's the existence of the stars and planets - the biology on earth - or its practicality for human beings to create a functional world and progress towards whatever our future destiny is.

If we were to design the rules of the universe from scratch, we would struggle to create chemistry at all. We still don't fully understand how it works on a quantum level. But the fact that it is not just crucial, but so incredibly functional, is a design of a level of genius that we just cannot comprehend.

Why do the rules of the universe exist like they do? If any of it were even slightly different, the stars would not form. We may not have water, fire, electricity or biology. It is certainly as if it has been designed, perfectly, to allow life to begin, exist and flourish.

 

[Insel affe]

The periodic table is a beautiful & divine example of the importance and practicality of the rules of the universe.

Every (natural) element has a role to play, a purpose, whether it's the existence of the stars and planets - the biology on earth - or its practicality for human beings to create a functional world and progress towards whatever our future destiny is.

If we were to design the rules of the universe from scratch, we would struggle to create chemistry at all. We still don't fully understand how it works on a quantum level. But the fact that it is not just crucial, but so incredibly functional, is a design of a level of genius that we just cannot comprehend.

Why do the rules of the universe exist like they do? If any of it were even slightly different, the stars would not form. We may not have water, fire, electricity or biology. It is certainly as if it has been designed, perfectly, to allow life to begin, exist and flourish.

How many planets are there in all the universes?
If you like big numbers, the exact number is around 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000! All of these planets in the universe orbit around different stars and make up their own solar systems and galaxies.

One of those has got to support life, and we are lucky enough to live on, yet we still contrive to feck it up...

 

[Mustafa II]

How many planets are there in all the universes?
If you like big numbers, the exact number is around 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000! All of these planets in the universe orbit around different stars and make up their own solar systems and galaxies.

One of those has got to support life, and we are lucky enough to live on, yet we still contrive to feck it up...

Why do so many planets exist at all? Why isn't the universe just a chaotic goop of nothing and everything with no laws at all? Why are the laws of the universe so specific and so important?

Yes, things are the way they are. We have a good understanding of the laws of physics, chemistry and biology and all the rest - and it is absolutely astounding, it's impossible to put into words how amazingly designed this universe is. It's truly divine.

Yes, the earth is teeming with life in every nook, cranny and crevice - that too is amazing. Maybe there is life on more of those 700 quintillion planets, maybe there isn't - but the fact that all of it has been created, and people shrug it off by claiming it is just an inevitable result of a vast universe, is incredibly obtuse, considering that the universe itself has been designed in such a way to allow it all to happen at all.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The periodic table is a beautiful & divine example of the importance and practicality of the rules of the universe.

Every (natural) element has a role to play, a purpose, whether it's the existence of the stars and planets - the biology on earth - or its practicality for human beings to create a functional world and progress towards whatever our future destiny is.

If we were to design the rules of the universe from scratch, we would struggle to create chemistry at all. We still don't fully understand how it works on a quantum level. But the fact that it is not just crucial, but so incredibly functional, is a design of a level of genius that we just cannot comprehend.

Why do the rules of the universe exist like they do? If any of it were even slightly different, the stars would not form. We may not have water, fire, electricity or biology. It is certainly as if it has been designed, perfectly, to allow life to begin, exist and flourish.

We know we don’t know 95% of what the universe is and why it’s doing stuff. What we know is very little. To suggest our limited understanding and attempts to put theories and rules to things is part of a design, is just having faith in a creator having a hand in it.

I don’t really have an issue with faith, I have an issue with applying pseudo-science to imply an impirical reasoning for having faith.

The universe is so vast, that an infinite number of possibilities and rules exist because of an infinite number of failures. It seems perfect because what exists is here, what is missed is everything that doesn’t exist because it failed. That is not design, it is chance and when you can have every other possibility tried in a 1 in a billion chance, then sure the 1 in a billion looks special, but 1 billion other events happened for that 1 to exist.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

The periodic table is a beautiful & divine example of the importance and practicality of the rules of the universe.

Every (natural) element has a role to play, a purpose, whether it's the existence of the stars and planets - the biology on earth - or its practicality for human beings to create a functional world and progress towards whatever our future destiny is.

If we were to design the rules of the universe from scratch, we would struggle to create chemistry at all. We still don't fully understand how it works on a quantum level. But the fact that it is not just crucial, but so incredibly functional, is a design of a level of genius that we just cannot comprehend.

Why do the rules of the universe exist like they do? If any of it were even slightly different, the stars would not form. We may not have water, fire, electricity or biology. It is certainly as if it has been designed, perfectly, to allow life to begin, exist and flourish.

Nah, I'm with Douglas Adams

"Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as the final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God. The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist,'" says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.”

- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Believers seem to think, somewhat smugly IMO, that non-believers must live a life with no point or purpose as they lack religion. Not at all.

"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anyone tell you different" Kurt Vonnegut

Indeed. My thoughts are so focused on the living that I have little time for

There is broad agreement amongst physicists and cosmologists and other experts that the universe is fine-tuned for life to exist and flourish, the question is how or why?

You just need to look around you, look at the laws of the universe - the physics (the laws) that allow this reality to happen. The laws of chemistry that allow the universe to be utlitised in the most practical and important of ways - the biology that allows life to flourish. It is impeccably perfect, that no human being could come close to designing such a flawless set of rules.

One could argue that the fine-tuned universe is the result of an infinite number of failed universes, that nobody gets to exist in, and we are fortunate enough to find ourselves in this one... however could randomness in an infinite realm really achieve such perfection as this?

Of course a barely comprehendable conscious entity like a God isn't the only theory - but there is no denying that 'design' is one of the more plausible explanations for the perfection of this fine-tuned universe... if a God didn't design it, then what did?

Sorry but that is one of the most nonsensical posts I have ever read.

Let's start at the beginning. Physicists and cosmologists study the universe but they do not all agree that life flourishes.

Indeed, life on earth is the only known example of it.

Thus the universe is not tuned, let alone fine tuned for life to flourish.

That's just the first line. Then you invoke the laws of chemistry. These apparently allow the universe to be utilized. By whom?

What practical and important ways?

And so on.

It is different, but on a par with biblical descriptions of how God knocked it all together in 6 days, and then had a good old rest on Sunday

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

The universe is so vast, that an infinite number of possibilities and rules exist because of an infinite number of failures. It seems perfect because what exists is here, what is missed is everything that doesn’t exist because it failed.

This is also my rebuttal when people claim the Victorians (or whoever) were great engineers because we still use their infrastructure after over a hundred years.
No. The structures that are still standing are the structures that didn't fail. And lots of them did fail because they didn't really know what they were doing.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

That's just the first line. Then you invoke the laws of chemistry. These apparently allow the universe to be utilized. By whom?

What practical and important ways?

God's a big fan of the Test Match Special theme.

 

[kuzushi]

God knocked it all together in 6 days, and then had a good old rest on Sunday

*Saturday

Edit: in fact the Jewish Sabbath goes from dusk on Friday until dusk on Saturday. I think the Spanish word sábado, meaning Saturday, is literally a translation of Sabbath, which is related to the Hebrew word for the number 7.
I think the English word Saturday might have something to do with Saturn.

 

[SeagullinExile]

If you reject God, you can't have a relationship with him.
He's offering atonement and reconciliation, but we have to respond to his offer.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord .
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Can you explain to me why the same biblical stories were told by the Sumarians thousands of years before the Bible was written? The protagonists just had different names.

 

[kuzushi]

You defended that Christians aren't currently responsible for Jewish persecution, rather than that Jews aren't persecuted at all.

That's right. There is antisemitism around.
As fans of Brighton, we witness a bit of it from time to time.
Christians should not engage in persecution of anyone. Now, I'm not saying categorically that there are no Christians anywhere in the world who partake in antisemitism, because there might be, I don't know. There are lots of things that Christians shouldn't do, but they still do, bringing shame on themselves and the one they purport to follow. There are things I shouldn't do, but I do. Just one example would be that I can lose my temper sometimes, and I shouldn't, not without good reason. There can be a time for anger, but there are times when it is wrong. “In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the devil a foothold. Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need. Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. Ephesians chapter 4

 

[kuzushi]

Can you explain to me why the same biblical stories were told by the Sumarians thousands of years before the Bible was written? The protagonists just had different names.

I don't know. It could be coincidence, or it could be that they are very well-known stories throughout the Middle East.
Which stories in particular are you referring to?

 

[SeagullinExile]

Can you explain to me why the same biblical stories were told by the Sumarians thousands of years before the Bible was written? The protagonists just had different names.

The virgin birth and creation stories come to mind, there are more though.

 

[Insel affe]

That's right. There is antisemitism around.
As fans of Brighton, we witness a bit of it from time to time.
Christians should not engage in persecution of anyone. Now, I'm not saying categorically that there are no Christians anywhere in the world who partake in antisemitism, because there might be, I don't know. There are lots of things that Christians shouldn't do, but they still do, bringing shame on themselves and the one they purport to follow. There are things I shouldn't do, but I do. Just one example would be that I can lose my temper sometimes, and I shouldn't, not without good reason. There can be a time for anger, but there are times when it is wrong. “In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, and do not give the devil a foothold. Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need. Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. Ephesians chapter 4

please reply to post 361

 

[kuzushi]

You have not really answered the question, it is a simple yes or no ?
You either believe in the Adam & Eve story or Evolution, which is it.

It's a simple yes or no? OK, yes.

 

[kuzushi]

It's a simple yes or no? OK, yes.

Just joking.
There are some things we don't know. Is this the only universe or do multiverses exist? What is dark matter? etc.
I definitely believe that there is a spiritual message in the story of Adam and Eve. As to whether it is literally true or not, I don't know. It might be, but then again I am inclined to accept the theory of evolution because I can understand the logic behind it and it does make sense in my opinion. For example, there are mammals that live in the sea. What are they doing there? Well, since having lungs is a feature of living on the land, it is reasonable to think that they may have once lived on the land and gradually migrated to the sea. There are birds that live at the South Pole and swim, but can't fly. What's that all about? Well, I can go along with the idea that they probably once were able to fly. I believe God must have been involved, since I think abiogenesis is probably impossible without an intelligence behind it. The process of creation described in Genesis shows God commanding things to happen, and then they do. God said let there be light, and there was. Sounds a bit like the Big Bang. My personal feeling is that if evolution is how it happened then it is quite a groovy way of doing it. I used to be fascinated by dinosaurs as a kid, and used to enjoy embellishing the blood in on the dinosaurs in my dinosaur books with my red felt-tip pen, which now sounds a bit grim but I was about 5 at the time.

Ok, my question was rushed, I meant.
2: Do you believe that the Christian God is the one true God, and all the others are false.

Pretty much. I mean, there may be aspects of God described in other religions that are correct, but basically I believe that the God of the universe has identified himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Not really sure what you are on about, I do not need lectures or scriptures, I am asking do you think non believers will die and deserve to be sent to hell with eternal agony
I do not need to see propaganda, thank you very much, I have seen it all before.

If you want to be reconciled to God, you have to go through Jesus.
I'm not sure about the exact details of the consequences of rejecting Jesus, but I am sure that they will not be good.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Nah, I'm with Douglas Adams

"Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as the final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God. The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist,'" says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.”

- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe

Where did Douglas Adam’s nick the word Babel from?

 

[goldstone]

Fact is there are good christians and bad christians, good muslims and bad muslims, good hindus and bad hindus. My main concern is about the level of intelligence of anyone who honestly believes there is a god.