[Misc] Christians seem to be really good people

[Mustafa II]

Such importance placed on our existence, a tiny spec in a minuscule moment in the scale and life of the universe and yet we can draw an abstract conclusion as an absolute statement of fact that an entity must have created it.

The universe is fine-tuned for our existence. The rules and nature of all things - from the physics of the macro, to the quantum - to the chemistry of the elements - the biology of life - all things are as they are, to allow an ordered world for life to exist and flourish, where all things seem to have a purpose.

Why does it appear that the universe has been designed for life? We can only speculate, which is exactly what we are doing.

Some might say that every possiblity exists in some kind of multiverse scenario - there is no evidence of that, but many people believe it anyway. For varying reasons, it is only fashionable to lambast those who believe that a higher being is responsible for everything, which we also have no evidence of, but it is not really any more farfetched than other theories.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The universe is fine-tuned for our existence. The rules and nature of all things - from the physics of the macro, to the quantum - to the chemistry of the elements - the biology of life - all things are as they are, to allow an ordered world for life to exist and flourish, where all things seem to have a purpose.

Why does it appear that the universe has been designed for life? We can only speculate, which is exactly what we are doing.

Some might say that every possiblity exists in some kind of multiverse scenario - there is no evidence of that, but many people believe it anyway. For varying reasons, it is only fashionable to lambast those who believe that a higher being is responsible for everything, which we also have no evidence of, but it is not really any more farfetched than other theories.

They believe it in the sense that a theory makes sense not having faith it’s an undisputed fact. I’m not lambasting your belief that a higher being is responsible for everything - I’m lambasting your statement that it is the only possibility.

 

[Triggaaar]

Alright, well I do have kids and we talk about these things.

In order to discipline them, do you hit them with a stick, or do you hate them?

Obviously I hope that instead, you simply agree that like much of the bible, proverb 13:24 is simply a load of backward crap.

For those who aren't up to date with their bible studies:
"Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him."

Why is the word lairy appearing with a red line underneath it? Have I spelt it wrong?

Possibly because it's a British word, not US, and a lot of online dictionaries struggle to stick to British English.

 

[Triggaaar]

Even the simplest possible organism is more complex than say a mobile phone. How can such a complex thing have popped into existence spontaneously?

This is indeed hard to comprehend. Also add, if the big bang was created by a lot of energy, where did that energy come from? But then the same applies to god - if he created the universe, where did he come from? (and don't answer with some 'he's eternal' nonsense, that's not an answer and we could say the same for the energy etc).

I'm not actually against the idea that a god created the universe. What I am certain of, is that human's attempts to say who that god is and what they want/say is a load of made up nonsense.

 

[Triggaaar]

For me, it's Jesus who points towards God.
If he didn't exist, someone would have had to be an absolute genius to invent him and his revolutionary teaching, and the disciples were pretty ordinary blokes, fishermen and whatnot.

They didn't invent him - they were Jews, and they (like a lot of their ancestors) had been told about god since birth.

It's not just him in and of himself, but also the way he appeared, with prophecies in the Old Testament predicting so much about his life

If he thought he was the son of god, then he'd follow (what was then) the Current Testament and do what that Testament said he'd do.

, and John the Baptist heralding his arrival, and St Paul coming afterwards. No other religious founder has this. For example, Muhammad just appeared and started preaching out of the blue. Same with Buddha.

They tried to start new religions, whereas Jesus was claiming to be King of the Jews. He wouldn't have intended to start Christianity, he would have wanted the Jews to follow him. The prophecy was that he would unite all people. That prophecy has failed to materialise, and Jews don't follow him. So Christians persecute them - how wonderful.

 

[kuzushi]

I can't reply in the normal way at the moment.















































































































































Regarding discipline, it is important to discipline one's children, but this needn't involve corporal punishment. I was brought up by my grandparents, who were not religious or anything, and from time to time I'd get he slipper

This is indeed hard to comprehend. Also add, if the big bang was created by a lot of energy, where did that energy come from? But then the same applies to god - if he created the universe, where did he come from? (and don't answer with some 'he's eternal' nonsense, that's not an answer and we could say the same for the energy etc).



I'm not actually against the idea that a god created the universe. What I am certain of, is that human's attempts to say who that god is and what they want/say is a load of made up nonsense.

This is indeed hard to comprehend. Also add, if the big bang was created by a lot of energy, where did that energy come from? But then the same applies to god - if he created the universe, where did he come from? (and don't answer with some 'he's eternal' nonsense, that's not an answer and we could say the same for the energy etc).

I'm not actually against the idea that a god created the universe. What I am certain of, is that human's attempts to say who that god is and what they want/say is a load of made up nonsense.

There are things we don't know and possibly can't know. What I do is look at are the things we can and do know: Jesus lived, preached about the kingdom of God, predicted his own death which was also prophesied about hundreds of years beforehand, gave us the bread and wine to proclaim his death until his return (the last supper), was crucified, then his disciples reported that he rose from the dead. The Turin Shroud I see as confirmation of this. It has yet to be explained by science how such an object can have been created.

 

[kuzushi]

They didn't invent him - they were Jews, and they (like a lot of their ancestors) had been told about god since birth.



If he thought he was the son of god, then he'd follow (what was then) the Current Testament and do what that Testament said he'd do.



They tried to start new religions, whereas Jesus was claiming to be King of the Jews. He wouldn't have intended to start Christianity, he would have wanted the Jews to follow him. The prophecy was that he would unite all people. That prophecy has failed to materialise, and Jews don't follow him. So Christians persecute them - how wonderful.

I don't know any Christians who persecute Jews. Do you?

 

[chickens]

I’m with @Harry Wilson's tackle on likely cause of the Big Bang, in that it was immediately preceded by the Big Collapse, and that it was an explosion caused by trying to fit a universe into a single point of spacetime.

No evidence of course, but it’s a vastly more pleasing and likely theory than “a big man with a white beard who loves us very much did it then ran away.”

There’s something quite pleasing about considering the universe as cyclical in nature, that it will decay and then renew, with new opportunities for life to evolve.

Organized religion tries to put humanity at the centre of everything, while I very much suspect we’re an unintended byproduct.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I don't know any Christians who persecute Jews. Do you?

Your naivety on this thread is breathtaking.

 

[portlock seagull]

Bearing in mind you know f*** all about my first hand relationship with the Catholic Church, you are the ignorant one here.

Why would I? Equally, I could retort similarly. Regardless it doesn’t mean everyone who’s religious should be labelled negatively. Which was the point (you appear unable to compute)

 

[schmunk]

I can't reply in the normal way at the moment.















































































































































Regarding discipline, it is important to discipline one's children, but this needn't involve corporal punishment. I was brought up by my grandparents, who were not religious or anything, and from time to time I'd get he slipper

This is indeed hard to comprehend. Also add, if the big bang was created by a lot of energy, where did that energy come from? But then the same applies to god - if he created the universe, where did he come from? (and don't answer with some 'he's eternal' nonsense, that's not an answer and we could say the same for the energy etc).



I'm not actually against the idea that a god created the universe. What I am certain of, is that human's attempts to say who that god is and what they want/say is a load of made up nonsense.

There are things we don't know and possibly can't know. What I do is look at are the things we can and do know: Jesus lived, preached about the kingdom of God, predicted his own death which was also prophesied about hundreds of years beforehand, gave us the bread and wine to proclaim his death until his return (the last supper), was crucified, then his disciples reported that he rose from the dead. The Turin Shroud I see as confirmation of this. It has yet to be explained by science how such an object can have been created.

Why

































are there big gaps in your posts?

 

[Insel affe]

Correct.

You can't go anywhere that does not exist.
This is the thing about religions, they nearly all claim to be the one true salvation, you can't all be correct.

Where will I go then, because I do not believe in your Christian God.

 

[Insel affe]

For me, it's Jesus who points towards God.

Well Yes someone claiming to be the Son of God would need to point to there being a God.

If he didn't exist, someone would have had to be an absolute genius to invent him

Really, people all around the world had been worshiping gods and deities for centuries before Jebus turned up.

and his revolutionary teaching,

Not really Jebus, adapted John the Baptists teachings and spent time in Egypt learning their beliefs including the stories of Osiris and myth about his resurrection after he died, funny how it later turned up in the tales about Jebus's.
Revolutionary my arse.

and the disciples were pretty ordinary blokes, fishermen and whatnot.

You mean gullible folk who were oppressed at the time and looking for a leader in their time of worry and strife.
That tows the line for religion using people.

It's not just him in and of himself, but also the way he appeared, with prophecies in the Old Testament predicting so much about his life, and John the Baptist heralding his arrival, and St Paul coming afterwards. No other religious founder has this.

I think you can find ancient texts all across the middle east, Asia and China about older gods.
Those that you can't were confiscated and are sitting in the Vatican or were destroyed by Christians, any threat was dealt with.

For example, Muhammad just appeared and started preaching out of the blue. Same with Buddha.

Not sure about that, someone else can deal with this one.

In the case of Jesus, John the Baptist comes first, announcing that the Messiah is about to appear. I don't think anyone else in ancient times has four biographies all written within a few decades of their life.

The same applies
I think you can find ancient texts all across the middle east, Asia and China about older gods.
Those that you can't were confiscated and are sitting in the Vatican or were destroyed by Christians, any threat was dealt with.

Were it not for him, I'd be an agnostic.

That is grand, I am pleased for you.
Whatever makes you happy.

I see the virtues of being in religion, and I understand it can be helpful, but surely goodness, light, love, compassion are within us and we do not need to sing the praises, attend a certain building at a certain time, to be worldly or a good person. Why do I need saving ? Why did the Church torture and murder simple folk claiming they were witches, why did the church take children from mothers, why did the church class women as second class citizens and still does in some countries, why did the church get involved and complacent in the slave trade, why dd the church sanction wars with the loss of millions of lives in the name of Jebus ? Why should I trust the Christianity ?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Well Yes someone claiming to be the Son of God would need to point to there being a God.

Really, people all around the world had been worshiping gods and deities for centuries before Jebus turned up.

Not really Jebus, adapted John the Baptists teachings and spent time in Egypt learning their beliefs including the stories of Osiris and myth about his resurrection after he died, funny how it later turned up in the tales about Jebus's.
Revolutionary my arse.

You mean gullible folk who were oppressed at the time and looking for a leader in their time of worry and strife.
That tows the line for religion using people.

I think you can find ancient texts all across the middle east, Asia and China about old gods.
Those that you can't were confiscated and are sitting in the Vatican or were destroyed by Christians, any threat was dealt with.

Not sure about that, someone else can deal with this one.

The same applies
I think you can find ancient texts all across the middle east, Asia and China about old gods.
Those that you can't were confiscated and are sitting in the Vatican or were destroyed by Christians, any threat was dealt with.

That is grand, I am pleased for you.
Whatever makes you happy.

I see the virtues of being in religion, and I understand it can be helpful, but surely goodness, light, love, compassion are within us and we do not need to sing the praises, attend a certain building at a certain time, to be worldly or a good person. Why do I need saving ? Why did the Church torture and murder simple folk claiming they were witches, why did the church take children from mothers, why did the church class women as second class citizens and still does in some countries, why did the church get involved and complacent in the slave trade, why dd the church sanction wars with the loss of millions of lives in the name of Jebus ? Why should I trust the Christianity ?

I said I wouldn’t indulge in this thread, but don’t conflate the ‘Church’ with Jesus.
The Church consists of humans, some of whom use the label of Christianity for their own purposes.

There is a reason Jesus says, the Judgement Day will sort the sheep from the goats. In the Middle East sheep aren’t fluffy and white, they do look similar to goats.
Church leaders generally do a good job, kicking out the goats. Like most things, you never hear about the good churches, but newspapers and media love to publicise the bad ones.
That’s human nature. Would you read a paper that only consists of good news?

There is no excuse for abuse, and any leader who covers it up to keep their position is as bad.
Remember, Jesus, used his greatest condemnation for the Pharisees. There are still plenty of those today.
Don’t condemn all Christians for the acts of the evil.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

In order to discipline them, do you hit them with a stick, or do you hate them?

Obviously I hope that instead, you simply agree that like much of the bible, proverb 13:24 is simply a load of backward crap.

For those who aren't up to date with their bible studies:
"Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him."




Possibly because it's a British word, not US, and a lot of online dictionaries struggle to stick to British English.

The rod is a measuring stick for setting out boundaries. Ezekiel measured out the Temple in Jerusalem with a rod.
It isn’t a beating stick, but some men with bullying tendencies have deliberately used that interpretation.


All children need boundaries of what is and isn’t allowed.

 

[The Clamp]

What got you into attending church?

I was having a stressful time. I started going into one near me for the stillness and peace and quiet, just in the day time when no service was on.
One day some people in there were moving some furniture around and I offered to lend a hand. Had a cup of tea with them after, got chatting and started going regularly.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The universe is fine-tuned for our existence. The rules and nature of all things - from the physics of the macro, to the quantum - to the chemistry of the elements - the biology of life - all things are as they are, to allow an ordered world for life to exist and flourish, where all things seem to have a purpose.

Why does it appear that the universe has been designed for life? We can only speculate, which is exactly what we are doing.

Some might say that every possiblity exists in some kind of multiverse scenario - there is no evidence of that, but many people believe it anyway. For varying reasons, it is only fashionable to lambast those who believe that a higher being is responsible for everything, which we also have no evidence of, but it is not really any more farfetched than other theories.

Not it hasn't
No it isn't
Who cares?

Assembling falsehoods in order to allow speculation on another falsehood is not a good look.

The universe is infinite. We are but a tiny invisible spec in it. We have no idea what the whole looks like, or whether there is life elsewhere.
The universe was not designed. The hand of god is not in it. That's childish nonsense.
What people believe is neither here nor there and not fit for discussion. I believe you are deluded. All you can do in a belief contest is to deny my belief. Boring.

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

Why would I? Equally, I could retort similarly. Regardless it doesn’t mean everyone who’s religious should be labelled negatively. Which was the point (you appear unable to compute)

f*** off you crank

 

[BadFish]

I was having a stressful time. I started going into one near me for the stillness and peace and quiet, just in the day time when no service was on.
One day some people in there were moving some furniture around and I offered to lend a hand. Had a cup of tea with them after, got chatting and started going regularly.

Yeah, that's how they get ya!!

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

Organized religion tries to put humanity at the centre of everything, while I very much suspect we’re an unintended byproduct.

Humanity's hubris does indeed put at us at the centre of everything. The sun revolves round the earth, there must be life after death................because we are so important. I like the comments that Carl Sagan has in his book Pale Blue Dot, puts things into perspective and shows how completely irrelevant we are in the cosmic grand scale of things.