[Misc] Christians seem to be really good people

[kuzushi]

Are Christians and catholics the same thing? All I know is nuns are f***ing evil and priests are nonces, I’ve generally got no time for god botherers

What have you got against nuns?

 

[Algernon]

there are consequences to rejecting him.

Which are?

 

[Baldseagull]

There are many reasons why.
Usually, or should I say always, where there's an experienced need, there's a solution to meet the need.
People get tired. Luckily there's a thing called sleep. It's not the case that people say, "I feel this weird feeling, kind of like I'm lacking energy.. my eyes feel heavy... what on earth am I to do about it?"

People get hungry. Well, there's a thing called food.
People get thirsty. There's water.
People get horny. There's sex.

People feel the desire for meaning, some people feel the need to know there's a God who cares about them, the desire for a personal God. God has put this need in us to draw us to him. This need finds its satisfaction in Jesus. He is the one who meets this need.

Atheists also have faith, faith that there is no God, agnostics are the faithless ones.
Personally, I am a fan of Jesus in the 2nd book, though still waiting for the promised 3rd, 2000 years on. But his Dad in the first book was an utter bellend, stuff he did to Jobe just to show off, flooding the earth and wiping everyone but Noah and his Fam out, etc. assuming everyone he drowned went to hell, no chance to repent their sins, just flushed them.
I am not sure I would want eternal life in his house.

 

[Triggaaar]

Is that based on your Masters degree in New Testament studies?

You don't need to study the New Testament in any great detail to conclude that's it's made up.

 

[kuzushi]

Read this bit again . . . slowly. I was bought up to believe that god was love. The fact that there are consquences for our 'free will' as you put it (Surely the inclusion of consequences stops it being free will in the first place). Doesn't suggest love it suggests an abusive relationship

If you reject God, you can't have a relationship with him.
He's offering atonement and reconciliation, but we have to respond to his offer.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord .
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Personally I see no trend in Christians being better people than atheists.

I think you have drawn a conclusion based on a poor data set.

Perhaps we need . . . . a poll.

 

[BadFish]

For me the challenge with religion is twofold.

1. I would need convincing of an all-powerful creator in the first place - Of this I am agnostic, the proof doesn't really conclude either way at this point.
2. Once you have convinced me that there is an all-powerful creator I would need convincing that any religion has got it right. The notion of god as a loving entity who deserved our reverence and worship is utterly nonsensical - Here I am totally atheist. All religions are wrong about the nature of god (although perhaps the old testament that describes a bitter vengeful god, full of punishment and anger is fairly close.

Over to Stephen Fry on this one:

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If you reject God, you can't have a relationship with him.
He's offering atonement and reconciliation, but we have to respond to his offer.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord .
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

If I don't get an email or txt from god herself, I'm calling bullshit.

 

[kuzushi]

You don't need to study the New Testament in any great detail to conclude that's it's made up.

But scholars have determined that it's not made up. And when I say scholars, I don't mean just believers. Even the sceptics accept that Jesus was a real person who was crucified, and even go as far as saying that his followers genuinely believed that he rose from the dead, Bart Ehrman being a prime example of such a sceptic.

 

[Triggaaar]

If you reject God, you can't have a relationship with him.

I've got more chance of having a relationship with Jodey Comer than you have with God.

 

[BadFish]

If you reject God, you can't have a relationship with him.
He's offering atonement and reconciliation, but we have to respond to his offer.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord .
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

I'll take my chances.

I was always warned about emotional blackmail.

 

[kuzushi]

It looks like the OP has lit the blue touch paper and stood back.

 

[Triggaaar]

But scholars have determined that it's not made up. And when I say scholars, I don't mean just believers. Even the sceptics accept that Jesus was a real person who was crucified, and even go as far as saying that his followers genuinely believed that he rose from the dead, Bart Ehrman being a prime example of such a sceptic.

Yes, I'm not saying that a person called Jesus (or similar) didn't exist, I'm saying that the stories of him rising from the dead are made up, as are the stories that god created Eve from Adam's rib etc.

 

[kuzushi]

I'll take my chances.
I was always warned about emotional blackmail.

We are body, mind and spirit. I don't know what your experience of life is, but there is a spiritual reality.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I feel like you're picking on me here, as if I was ramming my angle idea down your throat. Don't know why you would think that.
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I'm sure you are a nice thoughtful person. But that's just you. You don't need god's hand up your arse, working you like Sooty, to be that.

Take responsibility for what you are.

Once humans learn to answer to themselves, and hold themselves up to their own scrutiny, we may start getting somewhere.

 

[BadFish]

We are body, mind and spirit. I don't know what your experience of life is, but there is a spiritual reality.

That's as maybe but it is not accurately described by any religion.

 

[kuzushi]

Yes, I'm not saying that a person called Jesus (or similar) didn't exist, I'm saying that the stories of him rising from the dead are made up, as are the stories that god created Eve from Adam's rib etc.

Believing in Adam and Eve is not a requirement of salvation, but believing in the resurrection is.
If you think about it, why would the disciples go from hiding trembling with fear behind locked doors to going around proclaiming the resurrection if it didn't happen, knowing that they risked getting crucified too for doing so? And they did this in Jerusalem, the very city where the crucifixion happened. If it didn't happen, their opponents could have just said, "Look, there's his dead body." But they couldn't do that because his body had gone. Muhammad's body is still in Medina, but Jesus's body has gone.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It looks like the OP has lit the blue touch paper and stood back.

He likes a poll, does Musty.

But, yes, you're right.

All the best

 

[kuzushi]

That's as maybe but it is not accurately described by any religion.

How do you know it's not accurately described by any religion? How do you know that Jesus isn't describing it accurately when he warns us to prepare for what comes next?

 

[Baldseagull]

But scholars have determined that it's not made up. And when I say scholars, I don't mean just believers. Even the sceptics accept that Jesus was a real person who was crucified, and even go as far as saying that his followers genuinely believed that he rose from the dead, Bart Ehrman being a prime example of such a sceptic.

I believe Jesus existed and was crucified, if he rose after his body was removed from the cross, then I would say he didn't die on it. and if you are going to give it the biggun and claim to die on the cross for our sins, don't just resurrect yourself and wander off with a "I'll be back" and then never be heard from again, actually die, or my sins are still needing some sort of sacrifice, and you have badly let me down.