[Misc] Christians seem to be really good people

[kuzushi]

Almost every Christian I've met seems to be a genuinely really good person. Like, ridiculously good - always wanting to do the right thing, and aspiring to be the best person they can be.
Not sure if it's just Christian values, or whether it's the belief that there is a God judging them for their actions, but either way for whatever reason they seem to be very good people... model citizens, almost.
Makes me wonder whether the demise of Christianity is a bad thing - and that atheism has resulted in selfishness and narcissism, where nothing matters but oneself.

Just thought I'd ask, do you sincerely feel that almost every Christian you've met seems to be a genuinely really good person, or are you just saying that to provoke discussion? Just curious, if you don't mind elaborating on this.

 

[kuzushi]

Bet all those Jews that lived and died before Jesus came along are a bit miffed about that. He told them they were his chosen people, but now they are not getting into his house because they didn't believe the updates were true. Maybe you will find you are in the same boat when the time comes, as you ignored the updates from Mohammed?

That would open up a whole other discussion, but there are reasons why I'm not in the least bit worried about what you say re Muhammad.
Edit: I guess I should say a bit more than just that. But I expect that people won't like it. Historians agree that Jesus lived, Jesus was crucified, and his followers believed that he had risen from the dead. By and large that's the position of most historians. There were the Christians, the Jews and the Romans, and while they didn't agree about much, they all three of them agreed that Jesus was crucified and died. When you have enemies agree on facts, you can safely assume that they're true. If the Russians say they've captured a city and the Ukrainians say they haven't, it can be hard to ascertain who's right, but when both sides agree that a city has or hasn't fallen, then that implies that it is true. Plus there's the Shroud of Turin which could be the actual burial cloth of Jesus, and which also confirms that he died. So when in Surah 4 the quran says that Jesus was NOT crucified, I conclude that it is wrong. I see the quran as a rearguard action by Satan. Satan doesn't want people to believe in the crucifixion, because it is the way of atonement and salvation, and he wants to take people to hell with him. You might not believe in Satan, but he's real. I've tried to avoid talking about this but there are reasons why I know this that I don't want to talk about. Anyway, when Muhammad started receiving revelations, he at first thought he was being attacked by a demon.

 

[Baldseagull]

So as not to have his cloak get in the way.

I see, still, I think Marsellus Wallace would find it a bit sus if he was giving a foot wash in his loin cloth to Mrs. Wallace.

 

[Baldseagull]

That would open up a whole other discussion, but there are reasons why I'm not in the least bit worried about what you say re Muhammad.
Edit: I guess I should say a bit more than just that. Historians agree that Jesus lived, Jesus was crucified, and his followers believed that he had risen from the dead. By and large that's the position of most historians. There were the Christians, the Jews and the Romans, and while they didn't agree about much, they all three of them agreed that Jesus was crucified and died. When you have enemies agree on facts, you can safely assume that they're true. If the Russians say they've captured a city and the Ukrainians say they haven't, it can be hard to ascertain who's right, but when both sides agree that a city has or hasn't fallen, then that implies that it is true. Plus there's the Shroud of Turin which could be the actual burial cloth of Jesus, and which also confirms that he died. So when in Surah 4 the quran says that Jesus was NOT crucified, I conclude that it is wrong.

Is that the basis for ruling out the entire Quran as an update from God, via Mohammed?

 

[kuzushi]

I see, still, I think Marsellus Wallace would find it a bit sus if he was giving a foot wash in his loin cloth to Mrs. Wallace.

It seems that you're missing the point Jesus was trying to msake. What do you think he was trying to impress upon his disciples?
(Anticipating a facetious response).

 

[kuzushi]

Is that the basis for ruling out the entire Quran as an update from God, via Mohammed?

There's a lot more than that.

 

[Baldseagull]

There's a lot more than that.

But no problems with any of the Bible?

 

[Baldseagull]

It seems that you're missing the point Jesus was trying to msake. What do you think he was trying to impress upon his disciples?
(Anticipating a facetious response).

No I get the point, stay humble, like Buddha taught him, just more interested in why he had to get clothed after doing it.

 

[Pevenseagull]

FFS.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

No I get the point, stay humble, like Buddha taught him, just more interested in why he had to get clothed after doing it.

Because if he was doing it outside it's hot there. Might have got a sunburned todger if he didn't cover up.

 

[pastafarian]

I see the quran as a rearguard action by Satan. Satan doesn't want people to believe in the crucifixion, because it is the way of atonement and salvation, and he wants to take people to hell with him. You might not believe in Satan, but he's real. I've tried to avoid talking about this but there are reasons why I know this that I don't want to talk about. Anyway, when Muhammad started receiving revelations, he at first thought he was being attacked by a demon.

Ah, the old Muslims are devil worshippers card.
You are free to dismiss the word of Allah as the word of Satan instead of course.

 

[BadFish]

That would open up a whole other discussion, but there are reasons why I'm not in the least bit worried about what you say re Muhammad.
Edit: I guess I should say a bit more than just that. But I expect that people won't like it. Historians agree that Jesus lived, Jesus was crucified, and his followers believed that he had risen from the dead. By and large that's the position of most historians. There were the Christians, the Jews and the Romans, and while they didn't agree about much, they all three of them agreed that Jesus was crucified and died. When you have enemies agree on facts, you can safely assume that they're true. If the Russians say they've captured a city and the Ukrainians say they haven't, it can be hard to ascertain who's right, but when both sides agree that a city has or hasn't fallen, then that implies that it is true. Plus there's the Shroud of Turin which could be the actual burial cloth of Jesus, and which also confirms that he died. So when in Surah 4 the quran says that Jesus was NOT crucified, I conclude that it is wrong. I see the quran as a rearguard action by Satan. Satan doesn't want people to believe in the crucifixion, because it is the way of atonement and salvation, and he wants to take people to hell with him. You might not believe in Satan, but he's real. I've tried to avoid talking about this but there are reasons why I know this that I don't want to talk about. Anyway, when Muhammad started receiving revelations, he at first thought he was being attacked by a demon.

I am going to ask my ignored question again as we seem to be back into that territory.

I am going to start with the assumption that you beleive that all religions other than Christianity are false and their followers are going to hell with Satan.

I just want to confirm your position on Christians

What about the different offshoots of Christianity? Are they all going to go to heaven because they recognise Christ as the saviour or are they misled by Satan and heading for the fire?

 

[MattBackHome]

Dunno about the Bear Pit, with a bit more legs this one could go Gold.

"Forget it" to @Triggaaar is the high point so far

 

[kuzushi]

I am going to ask my ignored question again as we seem to be back into that territory.

I am going to start with the assumption that you beleive that all religions other than Christianity are false and their followers are going to hell with Satan.

I just want to confirm your position on Christians

What about the different offshoots of Christianity? Are they all going to go to heaven because they recognise Christ as the saviour or are they misled by Satan and heading for the fire?

What's not clear? Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except by me." That's from John's gospel.
In the book of Acts, Peter says, "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”
That should answer your question I'd have thought.
Regarding different offshoots of Christianity, I don't think it matters what denomination you belong to as long as you follow Jesus. I'm not even all that sure as to how to classify myself. I am a Christian, but what specific kind? Well, I'm not a Roman Catholic and I'm not Eastern Orthodox, so does that make me Protestant by default? I used to go to a Roman Catholic church when I lived in Turkey because there was no alternative.

 

[Triggaaar]

And in John, which is supposed to be the more different of the Gospels, we have:
On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, ‘They have no more wine.’
‘Woman, why do you involve me?’ Jesus replied. ‘My hour has not yet come.’
His mother said to the servants, ‘Do whatever he tells you.’
We get a little insight into the human family side of it. I mean, we've got Jesus trying to get on with his mission, and his family keep coming along, bothering him a bit, and he comes across as slightly exasperated.

He was at a wedding - what mission was he trying to get on with?
His mother wasn't asking for wine for herself, she was talking about the guests at the wedding - I don't see what's so bothersome about that.

 

[Triggaaar]

I think it's obvious to everyone that Jesus is the way.

And yet people choose not to follow him. Where on earth is your logic?

Every religion respects him

Islam was founded from Christianity, so their Quran says Jesus was a profit, so of course they should respect him. Jesus was a Jew, but even they turned against him (when Jesus's followers persecuted Jews and tried to convert them).

Nearly everyone you talk to respects him, even if they are Muslim or Hindu or atheist. He's the only person who could unironically say, "I am the way, the truth and the life" and get away with it.

As before, he didn't get away with it, he was crucified. And no, Atheists don't generally respect him, he was a either a very confused bastard or a charlatan.

 

[Triggaaar]

If my understanding of your somewhat cloudy response to Psychobilly's question is correct, only those who believe that Jesus is the son of god are getting into heaven?

So no human who died before the birth of Jesus was able to go to heaven. And all the humans on the other side of the world, who hadn't yet heard of Jesus, were also ineligible. God really is a twat isn't he.

 

[BadFish]

So no human who died before the birth of Jesus was able to go to heaven. And all the humans on the other side of the world, who hadn't yet heard of Jesus, were also ineligible. God really is a twat isn't he.

As I said in my previous post it is not a fair method of choosing. Much easier for some and harder for other to choose the 'right' religion to follow.

Lucky it is all a load of tosh and we don't really have to worry about it.

 

[kuzushi]

So no human who died before the birth of Jesus was able to go to heaven. And all the humans on the other side of the world, who hadn't yet heard of Jesus, were also ineligible. God really is a twat isn't he.

I think God is fair, he must be since even we humans have a sense of justice, so if we are capable of it, God is going to be even more just than us. In Genesis, Abraham is negotiating with God over the Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.
The men turned away and went towards Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord. Then Abraham approached him and said: ‘Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? Far be it from you to do such a thing – to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?’

This passage alludes to the fact that God will judge the whole earth. We will all stand before him one day, and he will decide our fate. Will not the judge of all the earth do right? Of course he will.
Edit: What I mean is I don't think we need to worry that God is going to treat people unfairly. I don't know the exact mechanism by which it'll be done, but there is everything will be taken into account. Jesus chided the Jews saying that it will be better for the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah on the Day of Judgement than it will for them, because if they had had the opportunity to hear Jesus they would have repented.
Then Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21 ‘Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades.[e] For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24 But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.’

 

[BadFish]

I think God is fair, he must be since even we humans have a sense of justice, so if we are capable of it, God is going to be even more just than us. In Genesis, Abraham is negotiating with God over the Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.
The men turned away and went towards Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord. Then Abraham approached him and said: ‘Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? Far be it from you to do such a thing – to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?’

This passage alludes to the fact that God will judge the whole earth. We will all stand before him one day, and he will decide our fate. Will not the judge of all the earth do right? Of course he will.
Edit: What I mean is I don't think we need to worry that God is going to treat people unfairly. I don't know the exact mechanism by which it'll be done, but there is everything will be taken into account. Jesus chided the Jews saying that it will be better for the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah on the Day of Judgement than it will for them, because if they had had the opportunity to hear Jesus they would have repented.
Then Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21 ‘Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades.[e] For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24 But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.’

I think that one thing is certain, if he exists he is definately not fair or just!

You only have to look at the world to see that the god described by Christianity, a god of fairness and love cannot exist.

If he did the world would be fair.