Chris O'Grady

[Mellotron]

Fairly decent non-scoring hold up forward, for a lower end of Champ/higher end League One team. No more and no less.

 

[Easy 10]

A goal scorer would have avoided Green's challenge on Saturday.
COG did not fancy his chances with just an open goal to shoot at from 10 yard's so took the challenge and handed the responsibility to the penalty taker.
Surprised he did not get up and grab the ball and demand to take the penalty.....oh yes..

I think that's a bit of a harsh assessment of the incident. COG put some pressure on Green, who promptly took a terrible touch and gave COG a chance at nicking the ball, which he duley did. Green immediately lunged in desperately trying to recover - I don't think anyone could've easily avoided the lunge, and why bother when you're about to get a stone wall pen anyway.

I didn't rate COG either, but credit where credits due. He chased down the keeper and got his team an equaliser as a direct result. He's always had a good workrate and attitude, he's just bobbins in front of goal.

 

[Simster]

I think that's a bit of a harsh assessment of the incident. COG put some pressure on Green, who promptly took a terrible touch and gave COG a chance at nicking the ball, which he duley did. Green immediately lunged in desperately trying to recover - I don't think anyone could've easily avoided the lunge, and why bother when you're about to get a stone wall pen anyway.

I didn't rate COG either, but credit where credits due. He chased down the keeper and got his team an equaliser as a direct result. He's always had a good workrate and attitude, he's just bobbins in front of goal.

I agree with all of that, except to say I don't think he is bobbins in front of goal. He has scored goals at this level - the same sort of number CMS managed in his best season with us, when the general concensus was that CMS was an OK striker. COG scored a great goal against Arsenal too. But last season, the whole team was absolutely gash (with one or two exceptions) and he was playing with no real support. I reckon he'll score about 12 times in that mid-table Forest team.

 

[Mellotron]

There is something to be said for a non-goalscoring centre forward. Emile Heskey built an entire career out of it, and Michael Owen famously said he was by far his favourite strike partner to play alongside.

I have to say though, I like my strikers to be capable of scoring goals. I guess I'm just old fashioned.

If other midfielders and strikers score consistently more when a Non-Scoring Forward is in the team, it doesn't really matter though, does it? It matters whether the team wins or loses, and if a NSF means a higher win percentage, they can score none in 1,000 games and it's still worth them being in.

 

[Easy 10]

I agree with all of that, except to say I don't think he is bobbins in front of goal. He has scored goals at this level - the same sort of number CMS managed in his best season with us, when the general concensus was that CMS was an OK striker. COG scored a great goal against Arsenal too. But last season, the whole team was absolutely gash (with one or two exceptions) and he was playing with no real support. I reckon he'll score about 12 times in that mid-table Forest team.

The team was utter junk last season, so there's certainly merit in saying that there was not much support for COG. But it was just impossible to stop the shoulders slumping when we were setting up with COG up-front, because you just could not see where the hell a goal was going to come from. CMS blurs the argument somewhat, as I'm not sure he was even an OK striker at this level - he was a headless chicken who never had the nouse or instinct to take up dangerous positions, or the coolness and composure to finish on the rare occasions he DID find himself in one.

I'm still relieved COG has gone. Even in our current more positive 4-4-2 setup, with a functioning midfield and good width, I'm far from convinced he'd be bagging goals if he had to come in and replace Hemed up top. Good attitude, good workrate (a-la CMS), but on the whole just not a goalscoring forward IMO.

 

[Easy 10]

If other midfielders and strikers score consistently more when a Non-Scoring Forward is in the team, it doesn't really matter though, does it? It matters whether the team wins or loses, and if a NSF means a higher win percentage, they can score none in 1,000 games and it's still worth them being in.

Like I said, there IS something to be said for a NSF (nice new anacronym btw), but he should still be able to weigh in with his share of goals, and COG never looked capable of that. The caveat is that, as [MENTION=232]Simster[/MENTION] rightly points out, we were SHIZER last season, so maybe he'd have done better under our current setup. But I'm more than happy that we've effectively gone and got a replacement on the bench in BZ who will, I think, prove to be far more effective than COG, even if he is 5 years older.

 

[symyjym]

Like I said, there IS something to be said for a NSF (nice new anacronym btw), but he should still be able to weigh in with his share of goals, and COG never looked capable of that. The caveat is that, as [MENTION=232]Simster[/MENTION] rightly points out, we were SHIZER last season, so maybe he'd have done better under our current setup. But I'm more than happy that we've effectively gone and got a replacement on the bench in BZ who will, I think, prove to be far more effective than COG, even if he is 5 years older.

I think that you will find that Zamora will be a NSF. Personally I would reserve judgment on COG's effectiveness because I see something in him, as others do, and he could have a better season than Zamora.

Hopefully they will both be effective in their own right, but neither can be compared to each other at this moment in time.

Let us not forget that Hemed missed an open goal from a yard out against Hull. If OG did that we would be getting the same old crew spouting off how useless he is.

Hemed has always played with our key players around him, Baldock, Kayal and Stephens. Not sure if Holla, Ince and JFC are exactly the same to play with which OG had to do in the cup games. I would suggest it makes a massive difference.

And also let's not forget that Ulloa missed 2 penalties for us.

 

[Triggaaar]

A goal scorer would have avoided Green's challenge on Saturday.

Whereas COG got them the goal and got Green sent off, thus winning his team the game. Even better than a goal scorer.

And also let's not forget that Ulloa missed 2 penalties for us.

I disagree.

 

[Easy 10]

I think that you will find that Zamora will be a NSF. Personally I would reserve judgment on COG's effectiveness because I see something in him, as others do, and he could have a better season than Zamora.

Hopefully they will both be effective in their own right, but neither can be compared to each other at this moment in time.

Let us not forget that Hemed missed an open goal from a yard out against Hull. If OG did that we would be getting the same old crew spouting off how useless he is.

Hemed has always played with our key players around him, Baldock, Kayal and Stephens. Not sure if Holla, Ince and JFC are exactly the same to play with which OG had to do in the cup games. I would suggest it makes a massive difference.

And also let's not forget that Ulloa missed 2 penalties for us.

Time will tell on BZ, but I think he's good for 6-8 goals plus a few assists this season. I reckon we'll get more from him than we would have from COG.

As for your points on Hemed and Ulloa - ALL strikers miss chances, that's inevitable. But they have some credit in the bank when they miss those chances, because they DO actually score goals. Hemed is on 4 already this season, so he's entitled to a few fluffs because we know he'll come good. With COG - we knew he wouldn't.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Fairly decent non-scoring hold up forward, for a lower end of Champ/higher end League One team. No more and no less.

Quite. Honest journeyman who held up the ball for a side with nobody to hold the ball up FOR. we're a better side for the departure of COG and CMS. IMHO, like. New broom and all that. We're more of a three-dimensional UNIT now.

 

[Mellotron]

Quite. Honest journeyman who held up the ball for a side with nobody to hold the ball up FOR. we're a better side for the departure of COG and CMS. IMHO, like. New broom and all that. We're more of a three-dimensional UNIT now.

Quite. But as said before, I can never understand the personal ABUSE of a limited player giving their all. Fair enough to moan at a talented player who can't be arsed (Harley, Kemy), but I can NEVER get my head round someone being abused because they weren't BORN with more natural ability.

 

[symyjym]

I disagree.

I thought he had one saved and skyed another.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

COG got the majority of the 'abuse' when he couldn't be bothered to put in any effort.

Most notably and recently at Walsall in the cup.

Now it may well be that in that game he was already dreaming of Nottingham and the north.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Quite. But as said before, I can never understand the personal ABUSE of a limited player giving their all. Fair enough to moan at a talented player who can't be arsed (Harley, Kemy), but I can NEVER get my head round someone being abused because they weren't BORN with more natural ability.

That's not quite the case though is it? COG was getting much the same manner of dog's abuse as the likes of Harley and Kemy right up to the point where he gave a widely-reported interview that, surprise, surprise, revealed him to be quite a decent bloke and changed the general perception of him. I'm pretty sure a one-to-one with Harley or Kemy would have revealed pretty much the same. Truth is, we just see these guys when they roll up fully-formed at the Albion, and we judge accordingly - which is only natural. We don't see them as kids working their way through the schoolboy years with doting parents on the touchline with all sorts of dreams for their kids, making all sorts of sacrifices. We just see what in most cases is the finished player. Reckon we're all a bit guilty of not seeing them as human beings just muddling through their life, making good and bad choices, same as the rest of us.

 

[Mellotron]

That's not quite the case though is it? COG was getting much the same manner of dog's abuse as the likes of Harley and Kemy right up to the point where he gave a widely-reported interview that, surprise, surprise, revealed him to be quite a decent bloke and changed the general perception of him. I'm pretty sure a one-to-one with Harley or Kemy would have revealed pretty much the same. Truth is, we just see these guys when they roll up fully-formed at the Albion, and we judge accordingly - which is only natural. We don't see them as kids working their way through the schoolboy years with doting parents on the touchline with all sorts of dreams for their kids, making all sorts of sacrifices. We just see what in most cases is the finished player. Reckon we're all a bit guilty of not seeing them as human beings just muddling through their life, making good and bad choices, same as the rest of us.

I don't think it's comparable. I would see Harley PULL out of 50/50 tackles. He clearly didn't give a shit and just swanned around. The likes of C'OG, along with, say, Barnes and El Abd, will run themselves into the ground for a side, so I will ALWAYS forgive those players when they simply aren't quite good enough to do something.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Based on what I've seen in a Brighton shirt, I really don't think he is very good, as his goal-scoring record and general play shows. All this 'target man' talk, well sorry, but I thought the general idea was for a target man to hold the ball and link play, not let it bounce off him every other time.

However, that said, maybe we were just a 'bad fit' for him and he'll do well elsewhere - I hope for his sake he does.

 

[symyjym]

I don't think it's comparable. I would see Harley PULL out of 50/50 tackles. He clearly didn't give a shit and just swanned around. The likes of C'OG, along with, say, Barnes and El Abd, will run themselves into the ground for a side, so I will ALWAYS forgive those players when they simply aren't quite good enough to do something.

That's not true. Harley would pull out of 80/20 tackles in his favour.

 

[Triggaaar]

I thought he had one saved and skyed another.

That's not the bit I disagreed with

 

[symyjym]

That's not the bit I disagreed with

Ah I see what you are saying now, you are indeed correct on reflection.

 

[saafend_seagull]

on the bench..