Child Benefit Changes

[BLOCK F]

Great post.

I was on self assessment for ages (not out of choice) and it was a pain in the arse for me as I didnt have loads of tax offset activities or shares etc. I am now considering this option again as (whilst on it) I got a rebate every year.

If everyone decided to do this it would probably mean that HMRC would grind to a halt

My wife is self employed and I do her self assessment online.Unless you have 'complications' it is pretty straightforward and you get to know how much tax and n.i. you owe immediately.

 

[TranmereGull]

Why was it a pain in the arse? If your affairs are simple - single salaried income and a bank account or two with a small amount of interest - then it should be straight forward taking up very little time.

Mainly because I am bone idle.

 

[Nibble]

Looking forward to seeing this thread bounced in decades to come, when the senile Dr.Not under the care of his offspring points out that his descendants are paying for Nibble's hefty care home bills.

My point here is that tax fairness is not about the here and now and you need to take a long term view. You can either view this as insurance "What if I get sick ?" or if you prefer take a business perspective. Every penny invested in children's well being and education increases the likely return on future tax collection. Countries with ageing populations and dwindling birth rates (Japan and Italy for example) face some difficult challenges ahead and there are some genuine benefits in making it easier for people to start families and bring up children.

I make enough money not to depend on the state to look after me when I am old. If anyone did need looking after by the state, i mean NEED looking after then they should be looked after by the state. Of course we need future generations and some people need financial help raising children. Spending the money you don't NEED on holidays is not looking out for anyone's future. Most people who receive child benefit would have kids regardless of the 20 quid or so a week so I don't buy that child benefit encourages people to have kids.

The sense of entitlement to something that is neither needed nor deserved is astonishing frankly.

 

[TranmereGull]

I make enough money not to depend on the state to look after me when I am old. If anyone did need looking after by the state, i mean NEED looking after then they should be looked after by the state. Of course we need future generations and some people need financial help raising children. Spending the money you don't NEED on holidays is not looking out for anyone's future. Most people who receive child benefit would have kids regardless of the 20 quid or so a week so I don't buy that child benefit encourages people to have kids.

The sense of entitlement to something that is neither needed nor deserved is astonishing frankly.

What are you talking about. Everyone NEEDS a Holiday!! If it wasnt for child benefit being stashed away one would have to go where all the benefits people go!!

Frankly Torremolinos or Playas Los Americas is full of human dross and I would rather maintain my destination differential thank you very much.

 

[ROSM]

So Nibble is fully aware of how much he will need to look after him when he's sat dribbling into a cup aged 102 and regaling all around him with stories about 'i used to be famous you know. I was on the stage and in films once'.

Escalate this man to the treasury immediately - his forecasting skills are literally second to none.

 

[Nibble]

So Nibble is fully aware of how much he will need to look after him when he's sat dribbling into a cup aged 102 and regaling all around him with stories about 'i used to be famous you know. I was on the stage and in films once'.

Escalate this man to the treasury immediately - his forecasting skills are literally second to none.

I have absolutely no intention of talking to anyone at that age except the 25 yr old maid I shall employ to take care of my every need. As I sit back in my mountain retreat,high in the Swiss Alps, watching endless re-runs of the episode of Midsomer murders I once had one line in, I shall re-call this dismall little debate and think of you all squirrelling your little 20 pound notes away for a fortnight's camping in Myrtha!

 

[Nibble]

For the record though I do believe all childcare costs should be covered (on a means checked basis of course).

 

[TranmereGull]

I have absolutely no intention of talking to anyone at that age except the 25 yr old male Nurse I shall employ to take care of my every arse needs. :

edited.

 

[Nibble]

edited.

That is comedy genius right there. Gold dust. What you've done is put the word male and arse in there, thus making out that I'm gay? f***ing brilliant. Oh, I shall remember that one.

 

[Curious Orange]

Yep, means testing, nice idea... and only worth doing if it doesn't cost more than the amount that is no longer being paid out.

 

[Nibble]

Yep, means testing, nice idea... and only worth doing if it doesn't cost more than the amount that is no longer being paid out.

Good point. Would have to be an earnings cut off.

 

[sten_super]

Yep, means testing, nice idea... and only worth doing if it doesn't cost more than the amount that is no longer being paid out.

...and this is why they bought in the rather arbitrary cut-off point based on individual earnings for child benefit; because that is data that they already have access to. The system needs a complete bottom-up reform to bring everything into line.

 

[ROSM]

I have absolutely no intention of talking to anyone at that age except the 25 yr old maid I shall employ to take care of my every need. As I sit back in my mountain retreat,high in the Swiss Alps, watching endless re-runs of the episode of Midsomer murders I once had one line in, I shall re-call this dismall little debate and think of you all squirrelling your little 20 pound notes away for a fortnight's camping in Myrtha!

I assume you mean Merthyr? Only been there once on a school trip. Cant say I've used the child benefit on a holiday myself - I thought more about investing it in giving my kids a sporting start in life.

You will of course hope that there are enough young people around for a 25 year old to be willing (and available) to choose to be the arse wiper of a snivelling (and rather bitter) old man who sits his lonely existance in a tax retreat having spent years telling everybody else what the state should and shouldnt do for them despite having not paid into it for many moons himself.

 

[TranmereGull]

That is comedy genius right there. Gold dust. What you've done is put the word male and arse in there, thus making out that I'm gay? f***ing brilliant. Oh, I shall remember that one.

Thank you Nipple. Thank you for being there.

 

[Nibble]

I assume you mean Merthyr? Only been there once on a school trip. Cant say I've used the child benefit on a holiday myself - I thought more about investing it in giving my kids a sporting start in life.

You will of course hope that there are enough young people around for a 25 year old to be willing (and available) to choose to be the arse wiper of a snivelling (and rather bitter) old man who sits his lonely existance in a tax retreat having spent years telling everybody else what the state should and shouldnt do for them despite having not paid into it for many moons himself.

I think you're getting way too confused and tied up by all this and maybe losing sight of when someone is not being quite serious? I have no idea where I'll end up and if I need care then I would hope to get it. If you think people are going to just stop having kids who are future tax payers your are deranged. I have no problem at all except when people use the child benefit for a jolly and then turn around and call other people on benefits scroungers. No more, no less. Why YOU feel the need to critisise my career, my future disposition as an O.A.P and whether or not I pay my taxes says more about you than it does me.

Who the state does or doesn't pay benefits to is none of my business. If the money I provide for your child is then spent on holidays, then yes, it is my business. Especially when the same person has the brass balls to accuse others of being benefit cheats!! Is that such a hard concept to grasp? Clearly for you, it is.

 

[ROSM]

I think you're getting way too confused and tied up by all this and maybe losing sight of when someone is not being quite serious? I have no idea where I'll end up and if I need care then I would hope to get it. If you think people are going to just stop having kids who are future tax payers your are deranged. I have no problem at all except when people use the child benefit for a jolly and then turn around and call other people on benefits scroungers. No more, no less. Why YOU feel the need to critisise my career, my future disposition as an O.A.P and whether or not I pay my taxes says more about you than it does me.

Who the state does or doesn't pay benefits to is none of my business. If the money I provide for your child is then spent on holidays, then yes, it is my business. Especially when the same person has the brass balls to accuse others of being benefit cheats!! Is that such a hard concept to grasp? Clearly for you, it is.

Let's make this simple then.

It was you that said that you earn enough not to need care in your old age. If that was a joke then clearly we are joking with you. If it wasnt then perhaps the subsequent comments have hit a nerve.

I havnt called you or anyone else a benefit scrounger. That term is lazy tabloid rubbish with very little basis in fact.

Who says the money is used to pay a jolly? summer holidays are educational for children in many ways (new lands, new cultures, new languages - and that's just going to cornwall). As I said, I can understand why the government cut it - but now? at the time when the economy needs lubricating? at the same time as tax cuts are being given to the highest paid? without thinking through the how to benefit from the cut and the knock ons and in direct conflict with the 'family' policies that they claim to stand for? Well - if you can make sense of that with generalisations and aspersions then well done you.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Stopping this archaic 'benefit' absolutely has to be the right thing to do.

What does seem strange is the new means testing-ish that is being applied. I completely see that a full-on appraisal across both partner's incomes could become a very costly system to implement, negating most/all of the savings earned, but I do wonder why it is not just being scrapped completely with the money then factored into other existing means tested benefits that are paid to those who truly need them.

The original concept of Family Allowance (now called child benefit) was introduced by Labour in 1945 in order to provide a minimum standard of living and lift families above the poverty line. It was one of many components of a post war welfare state adopted from the Beveridge Report. In the 21st century it is no longer fit for purpose and needs to be mapped across into WTC and Universal Credit on a means tested basis.

 

[Nibble]

Let's make this simple then.

It was you that said that you earn enough not to need care in your old age. If that was a joke then clearly we are joking with you. If it wasnt then perhaps the subsequent comments have hit a nerve.

I havnt called you or anyone else a benefit scrounger. That term is lazy tabloid rubbish with very little basis in fact.

Who says the money is used to pay a jolly? summer holidays are educational for children in many ways (new lands, new cultures, new languages - and that's just going to cornwall). As I said, I can understand why the government cut it - but now? at the time when the economy needs lubricating? at the same time as tax cuts are being given to the highest paid? without thinking through the how to benefit from the cut and the knock ons and in direct conflict with the 'family' policies that they claim to stand for? Well - if you can make sense of that with generalisations and aspersions then well done you.

You have failed to grasp the basic points. You've resorted to insults and you are just plain wrong. Well done, a full house. I shan't bother replying to your deranged outbursts in the future. This country. You people.

 

[sully]

The original concept of Family Allowance (now called child benefit) was introduced by Labour in 1945 in order to provide a minimum standard of living and lift families above the poverty line. It was one of many components of a post war welfare state adopted from the Beveridge Report. In the 21st century it is no longer fit for purpose and needs to be mapped across into WTC and Universal Credit on a means tested basis.

Absolutely.

A few people have mentioned "poverty" in this thread. What exactly constitutes poverty nowadays? Not having an iPhone? It used to be not having a TV!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Errr, once you have done a self assessment you have to do it every year forever, you can't decide to stop it. At least, that's the way I understand it..

Actually you can stop doing Self Assessment. If your tax affairs are constantly straight forward and simple for a few years ( i.e. one job with PAYE, no other income ) then HMRC can tell you not to continue bothering. You can actually ask as well just as long as you meet the criteria.