[Football] Cheating...we simply have to improve

[The Large One]

Can I just say there's no such thing as a 'soft penalty'...?

It either is a penalty or it isn't. The issue then is within the opinion of the referee (the only person, sadly, whose opinion counts). If an incident has crossed a threshold for the ref to deem it a penalty, it's a penalty (or at least should be given).

The issue about yesterday's decision isn't the consideration of it being a 'soft penalty', it's to do with the point that Lamptey's light touch on Batshuayi's shoulder shouldn't have been considered a foul. Because it wasn't. There is nothing 'Tiq' did to make him go over.

 

[portlock seagull]

I want my club to reflect my values. If that sends us down the leagues, so be it

Oh please, did you really just say that?!

 

[The Large One]

It amazes me to this day how referees fall for antics of teams, Palace literally do the same thing every game they are leading, in the first 10 minutes of the second half they had 3 players down injured in apparent agony, all 3 players then played on like nothing happened.

I don’t like cheating, but I do think we need to become more adept at the dark arts if we are to prosper, every other team does it. Their penalty was a prime example, he falls down like he’s been snipered at the slightest contact, Dunk gets wrestled at a corner and jumped on whilst attempting to header the ball by Cahill and nobody bats an eyelid. Unfortunately it’s a case of the majority of the time if you don’t go down, you don’t get.

As I was at the game, one thing I suspect the cameras didn't pick up was the constant - and I mean CONSTANT - screaming at the officials for a foul, or a throw-in, or the decision to go their way. Batshuayi's dying tortoise act was one of so many acts of petulance - something that was clearly masking Palace's inadequacies as professional footballers. (Actually, I'll speak up for one Palace player - Gary Cahill, I though, acted as a model professional, getting his over-excited team-mates to calm down, and not going off on one when Dunk clattered him).

Point in case, a throw-in halfway inside the Brighton half (on the opposite side to the camera), and it's slightly contentious as to who gets the decision. In the end, it was a Brighton throw. Three Palace players start giving the Asst ref no end of grief about how he was always favouring Brighton etc, with a liberal dash of good old Anglo-Saxon thrown in. Result? Nada, play on.

Adam Lallana not long after, screams (and it was a hell of a scream) when Lamptey got flattened by Mitchell. His exact words were 'didn't you see that, ref?'. Result, long lecture.

 

[blue-shifted]

Such a cynical view . . . I completely agree with

As I've said before, football officiating is about as professional as Estate agency and second hand car sales

I've watched games with an old family friend in the past ( now long Since retired) he was a good ref for over 20 years, at County leve. H e didn't take any shit. His games were generally very good to watch.

Refs should meet the managers before the game and say, right, I'm playing it like this . . . No hugs at corners, no diving, **** VAR, I'm in charge . . . Tell your players the rules are to the letter of the law or it WILL end up 8 a side. As long as he/she's consistent to their word they will soon buck up

Yesterdays penalty was a dive, COnnolly dived, he should have tried to get a shot away, or gone down immediately he was challenged/fouled.

It can't just come from one ref. They will never be backed up by their bosses. The rules on hugging at corners etc needed to be communicated before the seasons starts and then consistently applied.

If for whatever reason the refs aren't applying the rules (which are all in the rule book), then the assessors should be marking the down so heavily that they are going to Barrow the following week.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Cheating exists because it works.

Manure are absolute masters when it comes to diving.

They very quickly cottoned on to the fact that the ref was going to be very sympathetic to them at the Amex.

I noticed that when our forwards went anywhere near their defenders, they dived and won the free kick every time! It was as though you can’t tackle as defender or have a 50/50 with them.

Made me very cross.

 

[blue-shifted]

Oh please, did you really just say that?!

It's there in black and white (well grey) so yes.

If you don't think like that, as a suggestion take a step back and rethink what's important.

Football is a game of winning and losing, promotion and relegation. Sometimes your team is good and on an up cycle, sometimes they are ****. For there to be a Villa or a Everton who are on the way up, there has to other teams who are on the way down. It really doesn't matter who's on what stage of the cycle when it comes down to it. It's the overall health of the sport and the competition that matters.

Now the overall health of the sport of football is a mixed picture at the moment, but the more teams desperately and cynically cheat to gain an advantage, and the more this is normalised and even fetished, (by your good self it appears) the more the whole suffers.

We were all football fans before we were Brighton fans

 

[blue-shifted]

As I was at the game, one thing I suspect the cameras didn't pick up was the constant - and I mean CONSTANT - screaming at the officials for a foul, or a throw-in, or the decision to go their way. Batshuayi's dying tortoise act was one of so many acts of petulance - something that was clearly masking Palace's inadequacies as professional footballers. (Actually, I'll speak up for one Palace player - Gary Cahill, I though, acted as a model professional, getting his over-excited team-mates to calm down, and not going off on one when Dunk clattered him).

Point in case, a throw-in halfway inside the Brighton half (on the opposite side to the camera), and it's slightly contentious as to who gets the decision. In the end, it was a Brighton throw. Three Palace players start giving the Asst ref no end of grief about how he was always favouring Brighton etc, with a liberal dash of good old Anglo-Saxon thrown in. Result? Nada, play on.

Adam Lallana not long after, screams (and it was a hell of a scream) when Lamptey got flattened by Mitchell. His exact words were 'didn't you see that, ref?'. Result, long lecture.

Completely agree. A grown man amongst pathetic petulant children

 

[nickbrighton]

Burnley have built their entire stay in the Premier League on cheating. They have made backing into the oppositions players and then falling down a fine art! I for one am glad we don't generally do it, but I can see the attraction for players and teams to actively play this way to gain an advantage.

I have always been of the persuasion that whilst refs made mistakes, they were just that, and that over time it would all even out. I also tried to look at decisions without Blue and White glasses on, but since lockdown, I have watched so many more games on TV and have come to the conclusion that not only does cheating work, but a substantial number of Refs are biased against certain teams, and for the top six.

I wouldn't want Brighton to encourage cheating, but as a result we have to expect that it will cost us points.

 

[blue-shifted]

Burnley have built their entire stay in the Premier League on cheating. They have made backing into the oppositions players and then falling down a fine art! I for one am glad we don't generally do it, but I can see the attraction for players and teams to actively play this way to gain an advantage.

I have always been of the persuasion that whilst refs made mistakes, they were just that, and that over time it would all even out. I also tried to look at decisions without Blue and White glasses on, but since lockdown, I have watched so many more games on TV and have come to the conclusion that not only does cheating work, but a substantial number of Refs are biased against certain teams, and for the top six.

I wouldn't want Brighton to encourage cheating, but as a result we have to expect that it will cost us points.

In some ways of course it will.

But think about it like this. There is a finite amount of training time in any given week. If Palace spent their time practicing passing rather than their clearly meticulously rehearsed "waiting for contact" scenarios maybe they wouldn't have to lowest pass completion rate in the league and might not be backs against the wall defending every game. Same with Burnley.

We've got a manager who doesn't have a go at refs and clearly sends us out there to try to rise above the other stuff going on (not saying a couple of individuals in the team have always managed to do it) and concentrate on our game. In the long run that will pay dividends, but there will be some oh so frustrating days

 

[Hotchilidog]

Adam Lallana not long after, screams (and it was a hell of a scream) when Lamptey got flattened by Mitchell. His exact words were 'didn't you see that, ref?'. Result, long lecture.

Outside of the penalty that was probably was one of the worst decisions of the game. Unbelievable. Good to hear Lallana is speaking up

 

[Coach_Carter_92]

All accross Europe (and the world) it is coached from a young age to 'buy' free kicks/pens. Players are taught how to instigate/anticipate contact, and also taught the correct way to fall. It is something not commonly coached in the UK, and I actively despise it, however its beginning to catch on as the rewards heavily outweigh the punishments

 

[portlock seagull]

It's there in black and white (well grey) so yes.

If you don't think like that, as a suggestion take a step back and rethink what's important.

Football is a game of winning and losing, promotion and relegation. Sometimes your team is good and on an up cycle, sometimes they are ****. For there to be a Villa or a Everton who are on the way up, there has to other teams who are on the way down. It really doesn't matter who's on what stage of the cycle when it comes down to it. It's the overall health of the sport and the competition that matters.

Now the overall health of the sport of football is a mixed picture at the moment, but the more teams desperately and cynically cheat to gain an advantage, and the more this is normalised and even fetished, (by your good self it appears) the more the whole suffers.

We were all football fans before we were Brighton fans

It was a bit virtuous, come off it. All very noble and goody two shoes

 

[BadFish]

The penalty was described on Optus Sport as 'clever'! To me its cheating, pure and simple.

I would rather we stupidly kept trying to do the right thing instead of practicing the dark arts.

Of course Connolly has a crack but usually it doesn't seem to pay off.

Most disappointing things for me is that VAR was supposed to signal the end for this kind of shit.

Unless of course that actually was a penalty in this day and age. If this is the case, I am not sure I want any part of this nonsense.

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk

 

[studio150]

In terms of time wasting, I always liked Ankergen just having the ball at his feet and doing nothing unless he was closed down. It also has the addded bonus that as the ball is in play there can be no yellow card for time wasting.

 

[The Wizard]

I think it’s one of Potters naiveties, not in a bad way because he’s a young manager who wants to do the right things, but there comes a point when it’s actually costing us. I’ve noticed it several times this season, the decisions are becoming softer and softer, it’s starting to remind me of the spanish league with how easy players can buy free kicks and even penalties with little to no contact, it’s where VAR becomes a nonsense because just because there is a minute amount of contact doesn’t mean it warrants a penalty. Chelsea, Palace and Everton all stand out to me as games I remember being infuriated by the opposition antics.

Every set piece yesterday there was contact between players, if they are going to award penalties for things like that incident yesterday, we should have been awarded one every single time we put a ball in the box, at one point Burn was literally being bear hugged and Dunk was practically head locked for his header that went just off target, with no attempt to play the ball?

Lesson? Cheats prosper, and we can’t beat teams in a tight division like this by being nice, you don’t get points for being nice.

 

[BadFish]

It's there in black and white (well grey) so yes.

If you don't think like that, as a suggestion take a step back and rethink what's important.

Football is a game of winning and losing, promotion and relegation. Sometimes your team is good and on an up cycle, sometimes they are ****. For there to be a Villa or a Everton who are on the way up, there has to other teams who are on the way down. It really doesn't matter who's on what stage of the cycle when it comes down to it. It's the overall health of the sport and the competition that matters.

Now the overall health of the sport of football is a mixed picture at the moment, but the more teams desperately and cynically cheat to gain an advantage, and the more this is normalised and even fetished, (by your good self it appears) the more the whole suffers.

We were all football fans before we were Brighton fans

Well said.

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk

 

[The Large One]

Outside of the penalty that was probably was one of the worst decisions of the game. Unbelievable. Good to hear Lallana is speaking up

You know where the press box is. Everyone could hear Lallana 'speaking up'...!

 

[The Large One]

The penalty was described on Optus Sport as 'clever'! To me its cheating, pure and simple.

I would rather we stupidly kept trying to do the right thing instead of practicing the dark arts.

Of course Connolly has a crack but usually it doesn't seem to pay off.

Most disappointing things for me is that VAR was supposed to signal the end for this kind of shit.

Unless of course that actually was a penalty in this day and age. If this is the case, I am not sure I want any part of this nonsense.

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk

Theirs is a fabrication borne of what is wrong with much of football.

For there to be a foul, it must be an action by the opposition player on the 'victim'. NOT a solo act. If refs don't understand this, they will only ever get their justification for awarding a penalty from broadcasters who are happy to make things up about what actually happened.

 

[Reddleman]

I don’t agree with outright cheating but we definitely need to get more niggly and streetwise.

When we are winning or drawing a game where we are happy with the point we should be slowing down free kicks, wrestling for the ball at throw ins, going down and staying down to break up the game. We should also be willing to foul a player during a counter attack and take a booking.

We are too naive and need to toughen up to be able to see out a game. That was one think we knew how to do under Hughton.

 

[SittingbourneSeagull]

The thing is VAR was supposed to help with decision making. They should be able to see clearly when there has been an attempt to cheat and players should be punished accordingly, but that isn't happening.

They seem increasingly loathe to overturn the original decision of the referee and that will just encourage players to continue cheating.

Connolly is getting a reputation now for diving although yesterday the contact on him was no less than the penalty they were awarded.