Cheat to Compete?

[portlock seagull]

I've not really followed PL for years but taking a growing interest recently for obvious reasons. Again looking at some questionable penalties last weekend I can't help thinking we need to become more savvy if we're to survive next season re: diving, swarming the ref, appeals etc.

Basically 'cheat to compete' - it's a whole different ball game, not just we're up against better players but far better con artists and theatricals.

And discuss...

 

[whitelion]

I've not really followed PL for years but taking a growing interest recently for obvious reasons. Again looking at some questionable penalties last weekend I can't help thinking we need to become more savvy if we're to survive next season re: diving, swarming the ref, appeals etc.

Basically 'cheat to compete' - it's a whole different ball game, not just we're up against better players but far better con artists and theatricals.

And discuss...

Calling [MENTION=34942]Dr. No[/MENTION]

 

[Weststander]

You probably have to join the cheats, but that's awful.

Disgusting by Sane and Rashford yesterday, as bad as if gets. Each proven by one vital camera angle.

You can foresee the fury on NSC now, as Dunk slightly sticks out a leg in the box, but a second before that Sanchez or Shaquiri are already throwing themself to the floor ... and the shite ref Kevin Friend arrogantly thrusts a red card and points to the spot.

I would imagine that our players are also given coaching on how not to fall for it.

 

[Bozza]

You're being a bit naive if you think our players, past and present, don't already practise "the dark arts".

Glenn Murray, for one, is most adept at looking for a foul where it matters. Glenn's a shrewd old campaigner though, and he won't do 12 tumbles as he goes down nor immediately appeal to the ref, but he's certainly looking for a foul where it's advantageous to do so.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Don't wish to cheat,but we might be advised to sign a motor mouth type of player in the summer,a type that may wish to be in the ear of the the officials before during and after the game,just to let them know we will be questioning any marginal (The Complete And Utter Shyster)decisions-going to be hard work next season no doubt and being a bit more noisy to the officials,whilst it can be seen as Sunday league stuff to a degree will be required if we are not to become susceptible to be trodden over at times.

 

[Weststander]

Don't wish to cheat,but we might be advised to sign a motor mouth type of player in the summer,a type that may wish to be in the ear of the the officials before during and after the game,just to let them know we will be questioning any marginal (The Complete And Utter Shyster)decisions-going to be hard work next season no doubt and being a bit more noisy to the officials,whilst it can be seen as Sunday league stuff to a degree will be required if we are not to become susceptible to be trodden over at times.

Sidwell does this, but probably won't be a starter. He admitted this in his matchday programme interview. Every team needs one (ManUre still bully refs with a gaggle of doing this, now outlawed by the FA).

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I've not really followed PL for years but taking a growing interest recently for obvious reasons. Again looking at some questionable penalties last weekend I can't help thinking we need to become more savvy if we're to survive next season re: diving, swarming the ref, appeals etc.

Basically 'cheat to compete' - it's a whole different ball game, not just we're up against better players but far better con artists and theatricals.

And discuss...

No. We should not cheat. All this "he's entitled to go down in the area" is crap. It's cheating. I hate to see Albion players dive, roll around or demand opponents be given yellow cards. The referees have got to be stronger, and if they're not sure if someone dived, talk to the lineman or 4th official (what are those people there for? ) and start sending players off for cheating.
If they did that, it'd do a lot to stop this nonsense.

 

[Seagulltonian]

Don't wish to cheat,but we might be advised to sign a motor mouth type of player in the summer,a type that may wish to be in the ear of the the officials before during and after the game,just to let them know we will be questioning any marginal (The Complete And Utter Shyster)decisions-going to be hard work next season no doubt and being a bit more noisy to the officials,whilst it can be seen as Sunday league stuff to a degree will be required if we are not to become susceptible to be trodden over at times.

Make Knockaert captain! He was in the Ref's face plenty on Saturday, and I'm really amazed he didn't get a booking for all of his complaining!

 

[desprateseagull]

hopefully our goals > dodgy dives..

 

[Weststander]

Make Knockaert captain! He was in the Ref's face plenty on Saturday, and I'm really amazed he didn't get a booking for all of his complaining!

I thought it put him off his wonderful game. I'm glad he fought our cause though. Would rather it was a centre midfielder.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Sidwell does this, but probably won't be a starter. He admitted this in his matchday programme interview. Every team needs one (ManUre still bully refs with a gaggle of doing this, now outlawed by the FA).

It will be a learning curve for sure,i am confident that mentally,a lot of our players will be able to cope,they have worked too hard not too,they could show us all how they mean to go about things starting next weekend..big stage,big game,much at stake....a nice warm up for next season no doubt...

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Make Knockaert captain! He was in the Ref's face plenty on Saturday, and I'm really amazed he didn't get a booking for all of his complaining!

Just captain? in all seriousness though,he needs to balance things,lots of energy can be wasted in tantrums,he is too important football wise to get dragged down.

agree with [MENTION=21158]Weststander[/MENTION]

 

[Stat Brother]

As said elsewhere Jiri's the man because he gets all the decisions.

The other specialists in the team seem to be 50/50 as the diver and divee, where as Jiri 30 yards out, will always get the foul, but doesn't seem to give many away.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The weak link is the referees. Far too many of them are pompous self-regarding idiots who think that being master of the universe on match day somehow compensates for the fact that they can't actually play the game all that well themselves. They are resistant to being told what to do which is why they are not in favour of things like replays that put more scrutiny on their judgmnt and takes away some of their power.

That has allowed them to invent their own interpretation of the rules. For example the 'totting up system'. There is no such thing. How many times have we seen the ref theatrically poining to parts of the pitch where previous imaginary misdemeanours were recently committed before flourishing a card? This is all utter bollocks. It was either an offense or it wasn't. Its like speeding. Getting caught doing 68 mph three times does not tot up to one offence of going over 70. FFS.

So regarding the OP's question, of course we shouldn't make cheating a strategy. That said, because the referees are such utter cocks, if you feel a nudge that is enough to slightly change your balance, of course you must go down because if you fight to stay on your feet the idiot ref will wave play on.

Untill we get TV replays, and take power away from the referees' assocoiation nothing will change.

Anyway as [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] says, our chaps are already well versed in the dark arts and so it goes . . .

 

[portlock seagull]

You're being a bit naive if you think our players, past and present, don't already practise "the dark arts".

Glenn Murray, for one, is most adept at looking for a foul where it matters. Glenn's a shrewd old campaigner though, and he won't do 12 tumbles as he goes down nor immediately appeal to the ref, but he's certainly looking for a foul where it's advantageous to do so.

I never said we didn't, you've misread. I said more savvy...

 

[Bozza]

The weak link is the referees.

I think the weak link are the fans (in the broad sense, not specifically Albion fans).

We're all incredibly outraged when an opposing player cons the ref against us, but when one of our own does it we shrug our shoulders and justify it because "well, they all do it don't they?" etc.

 

[AmexRuislip]

The point being is that the players will have to catch up very quickly, when playing in PL.
Take advantage of a certain situations, without performing BAFTA recognition, and gain the advantage for the Albion when deemed necessary.
Because if you don't, the opposition will.
And IMO, I do not want our players falling behind, I'm damn sure they won't, but it's all about growing another set of...........

 

[dangull]

Its a fine line in diving or making sure you clip an outstretched leg. Is a defender grabbing a jersey at corners cheating?

Its always going to happen.

 

[portlock seagull]

No. We should not cheat. All this "he's entitled to go down in the area" is crap. It's cheating. I hate to see Albion players dive, roll around or demand opponents be given yellow cards. The referees have got to be stronger, and if they're not sure if someone dived, talk to the lineman or 4th official (what are those people there for? ) and start sending players off for cheating.
If they did that, it'd do a lot to stop this nonsense.

very laudable but arguably naive. In a nutshell, is this precisely what may be the difference. Everytime I see pundits describe, they never use the word cheat. It's always words like experience! So do we need to up our 'gamesmanship' (or cheating) to con opposition, intimidate officials etc? The FA always start new seasons with blah blah blah respect, stamping out this and that but we all know by September it's make to the norm and cheats do prosper. There are some word class con artists in the PL, it's a skill in many respects. Are we 'as good' or do we 'need to improve' in this area so's to speak?

 

[Seagulltonian]

Just captain? in all seriousness though,he needs to balance things,lots of energy can be wasted in tantrums,he is too important football wise to get dragged down.

agree with [MENTION=21158]Weststander[/MENTION]

I concur on that point as well.
But with the rule that only the Captain can have a chat to the referee, he's really going to have to watch himself next season, as other teams will be out to "Nullify" our main danger, and I can see the Knockhaert booking tally being double figures next season!