[Politics] Chancellor Philip Hammond's Spring Statement

[nicko31]

OBR: little has changed really

The Office for Budget Responsibility has released its verdict on the UK economy.

And it points out that Britain’s economy isn’t in a much better place than four months ago, when the last budget was released.

The OBR says:

The economy has slightly more momentum in the near term, thanks to the unexpected strength of the world economy, but there seems little reason to change our view of its medium-term growth potential. And while the budget deficit looks likely to come in almost £5bn lower this year than we expected in November, the explanations for this imply smaller downward revisions for future years. As a result, the government’s headroom against its fiscal targets is virtually unchanged.

On Brexit, the fiscal watchdog says there’s been less damage than feared:

The vote to leave the European Union appears to have slowed the economy, but by less than we expected immediately after the referendum – thanks in part to the willingness of consumers to maintain spending by reducing their saving. But it is important not to put too much weight on early estimates of economic activity either side of the referendum, not least because the bottom-up measures of GDP growth in the national accounts differ as to whether growth slowed down, speeded up or remained stable between 2016 and 2017. Consumer debt is also at Sky high levels and cannot be sustained.

And on productivity, the OBR warns that recent improvements may not last.

The biggest surprise in the economic data released since November is that productivity growth – measured as output per hour – has been much stronger than expected. But that reflects a much weaker path for average hours worked, rather than stronger output or weaker employment growth.

The fall in average hours over the second half of 2017 is the largest since mid-2011 and second largest since the financial crisis. But in 2011 the fall in hours and associated pick-up in productivity growth proved to be erratic and were soon reversed. We assume for now that the same will be true on this occasion.

The pick up in global growth has been fortuitous for the Brexiteers that it has coincided with the underlying growth and investment in the UK flat or falling. The tees up the convenient lie that Brexit isn't having any negative consequences and it was all project fear etc.

The question is when the tide goes out, will we have any clothes on?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

"A new tech business is being created in the UK every hour"

How many in NI in preparation for moving the start-up across the Irish Sea?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

#BrexitHasn'tHappenedYetYouSpanner

Hands off Spanners. Spanners are useful.

 

[vegster]

"A new tech business is being created in the UK every hour"

"More jobs, rising real wages, higher employment, and shrinking debt"

#Jam Tommorow ! #Well, soon ! #Next Year ! #If we are Lucky !

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Hands off Spanners. Spanners are useful.

They’re useful, but the most efficient tool to completely dismantle an economy is Brexit.

 

[Ernest]

#Jam Tommorow ! #Well, soon ! #Next Year ! #If we are Lucky !

The poor will get a sniff of jam whilst the RICH Tories will keep the whole JAR to themselves

 

[portslade seagull]

The OBR projections will mean that the UK will run a current budget surplus in 2018-19.

Not for long Labour would soon trash that and plunge us into mega debt again

 

[larus]

Not for long Labour would soon trash that and plunge us into mega debt again

Yeah, it’s taken since 2010 to try to correct the wonderful situation that Gordon “Prudence ” Brown left us in.

Socialism is great until it runs out of other peoples money.

Regarding “Austerity”, why is Living Within Your Means such a misnomer to so many? If we (i.e. the government) keeps spending more than it’s getting in via taxes, where the feck does this money come from?

 

[Pavilionaire]

What a depressing Spring Statement.

Hammond treating us like idiots, listing and twisting the good stuff whilst completely ignoring the bad stuff.

As an accountant I am obliged to produce financial statements that are true and fair, and I believe the Chancellor should do the same on the economy. Listening to his speech you would never know that the public sector finances are in crisis, retail jobs are in crisis, we have long-standing rubbish productivity or that we're bottom of the G7 for growth with what little growth there is in the UK due to us riding on the coat-tails of other economies.

I don't begrudge him mentioning some good stuff like the rise in the Personal Allowance, low unemployment etc but be grown up about it and get some balance.

I hate the House of Commons as a chamber. It is confrontational, archaic, like some public school debating society with lame humour, sycophancy and boorish behaviour to the fore.

 

[LamieRobertson]

"Income inequality lower than at any time under the last Labour government"

Sorry is this Phil or Alice talking

 

[LamieRobertson]

What a depressing Spring Statement.

Hammond treating us like idiots, listing and twisting the good stuff whilst completely ignoring the bad stuff.

As an accountant I am obliged to produce financial statements that are true and fair, and I believe the Chancellor should do the same on the economy. Listening to his speech you would never know that the public sector finances are in crisis, retail jobs are in crisis, we have long-standing rubbish productivity or that we're bottom of the G7 for growth with what little growth there is in the UK due to us riding on the coat-tails of other economies.

I don't begrudge him mentioning some good stuff like the rise in the Personal Allowance, low unemployment etc but be grown up about it and get some balance.

I hate the House of Commons as a chamber. It is confrontational, archaic, like some public school debating society with lame humour, sycophancy and boorish behaviour to the fore.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Yeah, it’s taken since 2010 to try to correct the wonderful situation that Gordon “Prudence ” Brown left us in.

Socialism is great until it runs out of other peoples money.

Regarding “Austerity”, why is Living Within Your Means such a misnomer to so many? If we (i.e. the government) keeps spending more than it’s getting in via taxes, where the feck does this money come from?

Very few countries run a budget surplus and those that do are generally oil rich. The vast majority run a deficit, it's normal economics.

Prior to the financial crisis the majority of people didn't even think about "the deficit". The worldwide disaster caused by derivatives and the sub prime US housing market focused people's minds on economic affairs and gave the party who wasn't in power the opportunity to blame the one that was. Since then "cutting the deficit" and "living within our means" and all the other bullshit analogies about splurging on a credit card and having to pay it back etc have been used to advance a false argument.

It's an ideological argument not a financial one and the ideology is to screw public services, the poor, small businesses and middle income people as much as possible before they eventually snap and vote you out.

Everything else is bluster, smoke and mirrors. You've clearly fallen for the charade as have many millions of people. Doesn't make it true though.

 

[larus]

What a depressing Spring Statement.

Hammond treating us like idiots, listing and twisting the good stuff whilst completely ignoring the bad stuff.

As an accountant I am obliged to produce financial statements that are true and fair, and I believe the Chancellor should do the same on the economy. Listening to his speech you would never know that the public sector finances are in crisis, retail jobs are in crisis, we have long-standing rubbish productivity or that we're bottom of the G7 for growth with what little growth there is in the UK due to us riding on the coat-tails of other economies.

I don't begrudge him mentioning some good stuff like the rise in the Personal Allowance, low unemployment etc but be grown up about it and get some balance.

I hate the House of Commons as a chamber. It is confrontational, archaic, like some public school debating society with lame humour, sycophancy and boorish behaviour to the fore.

I assume you took the same position with Gordon Brown ans he constant re-announcement of previous spending as though it was new spending. THe some goes for his ‘off-book’ accounting for PFI which has left huge payments in future years but this is not counted towards the national debt. This should be a criminal offence against him.

The reality is the public finances were totally screwed 10 years ago and it’s taken a long time to rebuild. What I find depressing is the lack os honest debate. All Labour want to do is oppose every idea about cuts, etc. We are still spending more as a country than we are raising in taxation, yet Labour just want to spent Christ knows how much more on the never-never.

Austerity - living within your means. It’s no rocket science.

 

[larus]

Very few countries run a budget surplus and those that do are generally oil rich. The vast majority run a deficit, it's normal economics.

Prior to the financial crisis the majority of people didn't even think about "the deficit". The worldwide disaster caused by derivatives and the sub prime US housing market focused people's minds on economic affairs and gave the party who wasn't in power the opportunity to blame the one that was. Since then "cutting the deficit" and "living within our means" and all the other bullshit analogies about splurging on a credit card and having to pay it back etc have been used to advance a false argument.

It's an ideological argument not a financial one and the ideology is to screw public services, the poor, small businesses and middle income people as much as possible before they eventually snap and vote you out.

Everything else is bluster, smoke and mirrors. You've clearly fallen for the charade as have many millions of people. Doesn't make it true though.

No, you’ve fallen for the socialist trick in that you think you can have something for nothing. Just because lots of countries run a deficit, doesn’t make it right or sensible. There’s a huge difference between borrowing to invest and borrowing for everyday spending.

If you don’t understand that, then you are deluded.

The standard solution to this overspending is a debasement of the currency. This is why the EURO is such a disaster for Italy/Greece. Their safety valve was devaluation, and this has been removed.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I assume you took the same position with Gordon Brown ans he constant re-announcement of previous spending as though it was new spending. THe some goes for his ‘off-book’ accounting for PFI which has left huge payments in future years but this is not counted towards the national debt. This should be a criminal offence against him.

The reality is the public finances were totally screwed 10 years ago and it’s taken a long time to rebuild. What I find depressing is the lack os honest debate. All Labour want to do is oppose every idea about cuts, etc. We are still spending more as a country than we are raising in taxation, yet Labour just want to spent Christ knows how much more on the never-never.

Austerity - living within your means. It’s no rocket science.

Leave the party politics aside for a moment, and just LISTEN to the tone of the debate, the catcalls, the jeers, the interruptions, the shouting, the frequent and increasingly desperate cries of "Order, ORDER!" from the Speaker.

The House of Commons is no longer fit for purpose as a building or as chamber for debate, and the MPs that sit there need to have a long, hard look at themselves.

 

[Two Professors]

They’re useful, but the most efficient tool to completely dismantle an economy is Brexit.

I agree,Brexit will harm the EU's economy,but 'dismantle' is a bit harsh.

 

[vegster]

What a depressing Spring Statement.

Hammond treating us like idiots, listing and twisting the good stuff whilst completely ignoring the bad stuff.

As an accountant I am obliged to produce financial statements that are true and fair, and I believe the Chancellor should do the same on the economy. Listening to his speech you would never know that the public sector finances are in crisis, retail jobs are in crisis, we have long-standing rubbish productivity or that we're bottom of the G7 for growth with what little growth there is in the UK due to us riding on the coat-tails of other economies.

I don't begrudge him mentioning some good stuff like the rise in the Personal Allowance, low unemployment etc but be grown up about it and get some balance.

I hate the House of Commons as a chamber. It is confrontational, archaic, like some public school debating society with lame humour, sycophancy and boorish behaviour to the fore.

It's always the same "good news " though isn't it ? "Good news " that never translates itself in to increasing wealth for the many. I think that Hammond and so many Tory MP's have no idea of what it is like in the real world. They don't usually have to use the services of the NHS, have begging letters from the Head of their children's school, drive the potholed roads to their minimum wage job. The debt has indeed been passed down to society in the for of wage freezes, loss of services and councils eating in to their savings to provide the services that you would take for granted in a Western Democracy.

And the saddest thing of all, Titanic actually believes In Hammond's budget more than Phil himself !

 

[larus]

Leave the party politics aside for a moment, and just LISTEN to the tone of the debate, the catcalls, the jeers, the interruptions, the shouting, the frequent and increasingly desperate cries of "Order, ORDER!" from the Speaker.

The House of Commons is no longer fit for purpose as a building or as chamber for debate, and the MPs that sit there need to have a long, hard look at themselves.

Couldn’t agree more about the nature of the House. However, all the time we pay peanuts (in relative terms compared to what you people will earn in industry), we’re going to attract low levels. Diane “Tell me, exactly how many is a Brazillian” Abbott as Shadow Home Secretary - I rest my case. Yes, the same goes for the Tories too.

 

[Two Professors]

What a depressing Spring Statement.

Hammond treating us like idiots, listing and twisting the good stuff whilst completely ignoring the bad stuff.

As an accountant I am obliged to produce financial statements that are true and fair, and I believe the Chancellor should do the same on the economy. Listening to his speech you would never know that the public sector finances are in crisis, retail jobs are in crisis, we have long-standing rubbish productivity or that we're bottom of the G7 for growth with what little growth there is in the UK due to us riding on the coat-tails of other economies.

I don't begrudge him mentioning some good stuff like the rise in the Personal Allowance, low unemployment etc but be grown up about it and get some balance.

I hate the House of Commons as a chamber. It is confrontational, archaic, like some public school debating society with lame humour, sycophancy and boorish behaviour to the fore.

'True and fair statement'?What about Carillion?Not much true or fair from accountants there!

 

[Pavilionaire]

'True and fair statement'?What about Carillion?Not much true or fair from accountants there!

Not really the thrust of my argument but you have a point. That said, I believe people reporting financial results should have an obligation to be objective about the outcomes, not ignore stuff that needs to be tackled before it gets toxic.