Centre mid

[jezzer]

We did brilliantly for 70 mins despite a few errors but it definitely looked like nerves in proppers case, although its a little strange someone whose played in the champions league would be that nervous, stephens started scratchily at the beginning of the season before for the first couple of games, getting caught out and showing some rustiness but im sure he`ll pick up, Although its too early to tell if he is premier class, it wont be through lack of effort on his part, and we need a buzzy pacy striker and this new belgian winger to help them all out anyway, goalie error more of a worry though, that`s two in as many games hes let slip through him that should have been pretty simple pick ups or parrys

 

[Pantani]

H

I think that the one lesson from today is that we will not be given time on the ball as in the championship. I am sure that CH will have noted that and that Stephens and Propper will v ery quickly realize that they have to be quicker in action and thought with the ball. A Man City fan on the train home said that one thing Pepe has installed in the team is to not allow any players time on the ball and they all try to achieve that.

City can chase the opposition really hard because they have the ball so much. In this game City only had to defend for 22% of the game. That is part of why it was so hard for our central midfielders, we gain possession their three midfielders are straight on to ours. Add in the spare men at the back because our wingers had been pushed back and the extremely high line City held because they were not worried by Hemed or Murray's pace in behind and you get an extremely compressed midfield when we have possession. Pretty difficult for Stephens and Propper in these circumstances.

To beat City you need a threat in behind their defence, and the ability to go direct when the chance arises. We did not have that sadly.

 

[One Love]

Anyone with any footballing brain can see that today was not the result of the players in our midfield. There were structural issues all over the pitch due to how Hughton set up, which basically left our midfielders without an out ball every time they needed to make a pass. Add that to the fact that Hughton's set up managed to leave us a man down in midfield up against City's fluidity and it's clear that there's not actually much more the two lads in that area of the pitch could've done.

Let's hope that the tactics were such to make sure we didn't get an opening game drubbing and also to ease the new players into the Premier League.

If we set up like that against WBA at home and are that defensive and deep, that's the time to worry.

 

[Wellesley]

Midfield were ok they just had no outlet up top, nobody to put the ball too when they won it.

Exactly, we were crying out for a pacy forward to put through in the space behind their defence. Unfortunately, the one time Murray looked to exploit this, when Murphy made an excellent run, he was brought down. So many times we had to pass sideways or back when a ball behind their defence was what was needed.

 

[Wellesley]

H

City can chase the opposition really hard because they have the ball so much. In this game City only had to defend for 22% of the game. That is part of why it was so hard for our central midfielders, we gain possession their three midfielders are straight on to ours. Add in the spare men at the back because our wingers had been pushed back and the extremely high line City held because they were not worried by Hemed or Murray's pace in behind and you get an extremely compressed midfield when we have possession. Pretty difficult for Stephens and Propper in these circumstances.

To beat City you need a threat in behind their defence, and the ability to go direct when the chance arises. We did not have that sadly.

That is exactly how I saw it.

 

[Bold Seagull]

No understanding between Dale and Davy. Can't expect much in such a short time. Davy only turned up a few days ago. Need to lean quickly.

I was a bit disappointed with Propper - Gross - Stephens, but then I had to slap myself, and realised a) they were arguably playing the best midfield and attack in the league which have all been playing together for some time, and b) It's Propper and Gross's first games in English football, and like you say, Propper not even been here a week - so maybe due a bit of slack given the opposition and debut games.

They need to settle and settle fast though, while yesterday was not a game for us to be picking up points, the next 5 are.

One big positive was Bruno, bloodyhell, anyone saying he might be too old; not a chance, absolute class.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

H

City can chase the opposition really hard because they have the ball so much. In this game City only had to defend for 22% of the game. That is part of why it was so hard for our central midfielders, we gain possession their three midfielders are straight on to ours. Add in the spare men at the back because our wingers had been pushed back and the extremely high line City held because they were not worried by Hemed or Murray's pace in behind and you get an extremely compressed midfield when we have possession. Pretty difficult for Stephens and Propper in these circumstances.

To beat City you need a threat in behind their defence, and the ability to go direct when the chance arises. We did not have that sadly.

A large part of that comes down to mentality. Hughton clearly set the team up to not be any higher than our own 18 yard box, and by nature of that tactic alone, City were able to push their own defence high up the pitch as Hemed isn't a threat in behind. The result is a condensing of the play where, if one of our players loses the ball, they already have 2-3 players in that vacinity ready to pounce and pressure.

If we're serious about staying up, Hughton needs to change that mentality and be brave enough to push his defensive line higher up the pitch. Yes, there's a risk we'll concede more goals, but it'll give our own creative players more license to break up play quickly when the opposition win the ball and allow for much quicker transitions which cover 20-30 yards, rather than transitions which were 70-80 yards yesterday (which isn't phyically to do consistently over 90 minutes).

I strongly believe we have the players to stay up. My question really is whether or not our manager is going to be brave enough to let them try.

 

[chaileyjem]

A large part of that comes down to mentality. Hughton clearly set the team up to not be any higher than our own 18 yard box, and by nature of that tactic alone, City were able to push their own defence high up the pitch as Hemed isn't a threat in behind. The result is a condensing of the play where, if one of our players loses the ball, they already have 2-3 players in that vacinity ready to pounce and pressure.

If we're serious about staying up, Hughton needs to change that mentality and be brave enough to push his defensive line higher up the pitch. Yes, there's a risk we'll concede more goals, but it'll give our own creative players more license to break up play quickly when the opposition win the ball and allow for much quicker transitions which cover 20-30 yards, rather than transitions which were 70-80 yards yesterday (which isn't phyically to do consistently over 90 minutes).

I strongly believe we have the players to stay up. My question really is whether or not our manager is going to be brave enough to let them try.

Hughton set his team up to win the game. He always does. And the tactics weren't far off. We had several chances on the counter (Duffy's shot, Propper's shot). Who knows what might have happened if we'd snatched one.
We defended pretty well for 70 minutes with those 2 banks of four working well to snuff out City. No mean feat. Not sure the injury to Brown and enforced appearance of Murphy helped things, a nervous start by Propper, those 2 poor mistakes for their goals (Stephens giving it away, Dunk's OG) and struggling, understandably, to keep the ball against probably one of the best teams in Europe for keeping possession all made it tough. And most of that is out of Hughton's control. .
But the idea that Hughton's not "brave", "not serious about staying up" or will be "changing his mentality" or tactics. I very much doubt it.
Someone brave deluded soul had another go at criticising his tactics at the Fan Forum. Didn't get very far.

 

[spence]

Hughton set his team up to win the game. He always does. And the tactics weren't far off. We had several chances on the counter (Duffy's shot, Propper's shot). Who knows what might have happened if we'd snatched one.
We defended pretty well for 70 minutes with those 2 banks of four working well to snuff out City. No mean feat. Not sure the injury to Brown helped things, a nervous start by Propper, those 2 poor mistakes for their goals (Stephens giving it away, Dunk's OG) and struggling, understandably, to keep the ball against probably one of the best teams in Europe for keeping possession.
But the idea that Hughton's not "brave", "not serious about staying up" or will be "changing his mentality" or tactics. I very much doubt it.
Someone brave deluded soul had another go at criticising his tactics at the Fan Forum. Didn't get very far.

My main gripe was when we went 1 down. He never changed it. We had nothing to lose then and should have opened up . Instead the inevitable happened and we conceded another

 

[chaileyjem]

My main gripe was when we went 1 down. He never changed it. We had nothing to lose then and should have opened up . Instead the inevitable happened and we conceded another

It wasn't inevitable . It was a unfortunate mistake. Nothing to do with tactics.

 

[spence]

It wasn't inevitable . It was a unfortunate mistake. Nothing to do with tactics.

Of course it was. City missed a real sitter. Another goal ruled offside. We done well to keep the score down. Could have easily been 3 or 4.

Deserved to get beat.

 

[One Love]

Hughton set his team up to win the game. He always does. And the tactics weren't far off. We had several chances on the counter (Duffy's shot, Propper's shot). Who knows what might have happened if we'd snatched one.
We defended pretty well for 70 minutes with those 2 banks of four working well to snuff out City. No mean feat. Not sure the injury to Brown and enforced appearance of Murphy helped things, a nervous start by Propper, those 2 poor mistakes for their goals (Stephens giving it away, Dunk's OG) and struggling, understandably, to keep the ball against probably one of the best teams in Europe for keeping possession all made it tough. And most of that is out of Hughton's control. .
But the idea that Hughton's not "brave", "not serious about staying up" or will be "changing his mentality" or tactics. I very much doubt it.
Someone brave deluded soul had another go at criticising his tactics at the Fan Forum. Didn't get very far.

I understand what you're saying and it is way way too early to make any judgements. However we don't want a repeat of Norwich.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Hughton set his team up to win the game. He always does. And the tactics weren't far off. We had several chances on the counter (Duffy's shot, Propper's shot). Who knows what might have happened if we'd snatched one.
We defended pretty well for 70 minutes with those 2 banks of four working well to snuff out City. No mean feat. Not sure the injury to Brown helped things, a nervous start by Propper, those 2 poor mistakes for their goals (Stephens giving it away, Dunk's OG) and struggling, understandably, to keep the ball against probably one of the best teams in Europe for keeping possession.
But the idea that Hughton's not "brave", "not serious about staying up" or will be "changing his mentality" or tactics. I very much doubt it.
Someone brave deluded soul had another go at criticising his tactics at the Fan Forum. Didn't get very far.

You were clearly at a different game to me. You also clearly didn't see his post match interview where he basically admitted he had no hope that we'd win the game.

As for me criticising his tactics, it's totally within my right as a paying season ticket holder to question these things. His tactics last year were, for the most part, very good. Yesterday, not so much. We showed absolutely no intent going forward and had our two wingers as auxiliary full backs for the majority of the game making any form of attacking transitional play nigh on impossible, despite the fact that the space was in behind their advancing wing backs. But then again, maybe yesterday's type of performance is the type of football you enjoy watching? Maybe you think we'll win enough games in the Premier League by sitting our defensive line on the 18 yard box all game, every game with Hemed as our lone forward?

 

[chaileyjem]

Of course it was. City missed a real sitter. Another goal ruled offside. We done well to keep the score down. Could have easily been 3 or 4.

Deserved to get beat.

Agreed on that. But not inevitable. Took City 70 mins to break us down and then we conceded thanks to two poor mistakes.

 

[chaileyjem]

You were clearly at a different game to me. You also clearly didn't see his post match interview where he basically admitted he had no hope that we'd win the game.

As for me criticising his tactics, it's totally within my right as a paying season ticket holder to question these things. His tactics last year were, for the most part, very good. Yesterday, not so much. We showed absolutely no intent going forward and had our two wingers as auxiliary full backs for the majority of the game making any form of attacking transitional play nigh on impossible, despite the fact that the space was in behind their advancing wing backs. But then again, maybe yesterday's type of performance is the type of football you enjoy watching? Maybe you think we'll win enough games in the Premier League by sitting our defensive line on the 18 yard box all game, every game with Hemed as our lone forward?

Of course you can criticise Hughton. Feel free. He's used to it. Just pointing out he will defend his approach , with aplomb. He's been a successful coach for 20 years.
And i said several times during and after that i'm not sure i'm ready for 18 more home games like that so agreed it was tough viewing in some ways.
But I think his tactics were right for yesterday , barring the caveats (Brown injury, mistakes that led to the goal, missed chances, Propper/midfield keeping possession) and i don't recognise that his tactics were set up to purely defend in/around 18 yard box. Not how i saw it.
But that counter attacking game was actually not far off how we played last season. Hughton is comfortable playing like that and we have the players to do it.
Also left up to me I'd have picked Murray in preference to Hemed who i think did better when he came on.

 

[NooBHA]

I actually didn't think that the Central Midfield did all that badly - OK there was nothing productive from them and there was some misplaced passes . Dale's mistake was bad but for the most part City never played through them. They forced them to play the ball wide.

Propper is an attacking midfielder who was asked to defend so he will play his natural game in other matches so I don't really want to judge the lads in what was a tough ask of them. I think Tomer was a wee bit out of his depth but I like him and like the others he deserves a chance against the lesser sides before we judge him

 

[Albumen]

Up against the best midfield in the league they didn't do too badly.

 

[LamieRobertson]

You were clearly at a different game to me. You also clearly didn't see his post match interview where he basically admitted he had no hope that we'd win the game.

As for me criticising his tactics, it's totally within my right as a paying season ticket holder to question these things. His tactics last year were, for the most part, very good. Yesterday, not so much. We showed absolutely no intent going forward and had our two wingers as auxiliary full backs for the majority of the game making any form of attacking transitional play nigh on impossible, despite the fact that the space was in behind their advancing wing backs. But then again, maybe yesterday's type of performance is the type of football you enjoy watching? Maybe you think we'll win enough games in the Premier League by sitting our defensive line on the 18 yard box all game, every game with Hemed as our lone forward?

I'd agree with that....and didn't see a problem with those tactics at all...and after one game i am not going to start criticising the manager who has served us well for two and half seasons

 

[chaileyjem]

You were clearly at a different game to me. You also clearly didn't see his post match interview where he basically admitted he had no hope that we'd win the game.

Ha ! Hughton didn't say that though did he. He said it was tough, difficult blah blah but "no hope that we'd win the game". He's far too classy to admit to that in public for starters and it was still on the cards, even if very remote, on the 70th minute. but hey.

 

[Bold Seagull]

You were clearly at a different game to me. You also clearly didn't see his post match interview where he basically admitted he had no hope that we'd win the game.

As for me criticising his tactics, it's totally within my right as a paying season ticket holder to question these things. His tactics last year were, for the most part, very good. Yesterday, not so much. We showed absolutely no intent going forward and had our two wingers as auxiliary full backs for the majority of the game making any form of attacking transitional play nigh on impossible, despite the fact that the space was in behind their advancing wing backs. But then again, maybe yesterday's type of performance is the type of football you enjoy watching? Maybe you think we'll win enough games in the Premier League by sitting our defensive line on the 18 yard box all game, every game with Hemed as our lone forward?

It's within others right to question that opinion and give theirs when you post your opinion on a public forum though right?

As it is, I think people do think that a manager has more control over tactics on the field than actually transpires in a game. The moment that team crosses the line, they have to execute their game against whatever is thrown at them. Gross actually played more as a second striker than I expected, but got pushed deeper and deeper, not by tactics I felt, by the opposition, same with our wingers.

In truth, we were probably more open than other teams like West Brom would have been. City sacrifice width for control of the ball, so with their full backs pushed up as deeper wingers, but beyond their defence, they pushed our own wingers back, and that would only have been alleviated by our ball retention – again, not tactics, that is down to how the players perform.

I don't think Hughton sent them out all guns blazing, but I partly agree with [MENTION=24867]chaileyjem[/MENTION] that we were set up pretty positively given the game, we just couldn't keep the ball. Tactically we could do exactly the same in another game, same directions and instructions from the manager, and we'll create loads of chances and win – same tactics, just different opposition and performance from the team.