[Albion] Centre back production line

[hans kraay fan club]

What happened to the once fabled Albion centre back production line?

In the space of just a few years it churned out Joel Lynch, Tommy Elphick, Grant Hall, Steve Cook and a little later, Lewis Dunk.

Then almost nothing for a decade...

Ben White if you count him as 'our' product, was a big one, but him aside, I think Hayden Roberts (now at Bristol City) is the only CB we've produced in many years.

Lots of hope for Freddie Simmonds, who will hopefully make the grade in 3 or 4 years' time - but you'd hope that we'd at least always have somebody there in the wings, capable of a back up / bench role, when required.

Ed Turns, possibly in that bracket now?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

What happened to the once fabled Albion centre back production line?

In the space of just a few years it churned out Joel Lynch, Tommy Elphick, Grant Hall, Steve Cook and a little later, Lewis Dunk.

Then almost nothing for a decade...

Ben White if you count him as 'our' product, was a big one, but him aside, I think Hayden Roberts (now at Bristol City) is the only CB we've produced in many years.

Lots of hope for Freddie Simmonds, who will hopefully make the grade in 3 or 4 years' time - but you'd hope that we'd at least always have somebody there in the wings, capable of a back up / bench role, when required.

Ed Turns, possibly in that bracket now?

We changed the program and downloaded Goalkeepers.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

We started spending proper cash for players.

 

[Withdean South Stand]

It is a good point. Until that post in the other thread about centre backs, I hadn't really thought about it but it's a fair cop. Unfortunately, @AZ Gull will be taking some well earned rest right now so maybe he will have some insights into our future centre backs coming through.

I don't think we've produced ourselves a left back since the glory days of Kerry Mayo and then, to a lesser extent, Sam Rents. Shout out for Dan Harding, I hope he's recovered from what that nasty William Buckley did to him in that brief Amex appearance.

 

[Coldwaltham Seagull]

Its a fair point but perhaps just speaks to how consistently good Dunk has been during most of that period that there has been no need (or perhaps opportunity) for anyone to come through and play significant games. Plenty of talented young players have been on the books- Ostigard, Goldson, Tomori- and gone on to have decent top level careers but none have ousted Dunk.

Simmonds is one that looks like he has a lot of potential and I hope he can come through over the next few years

 

[GT49er]

What happened to the once fabled Albion centre back production line?

In the space of just a few years it churned out Joel Lynch, Tommy Elphick, Grant Hall, Steve Cook and a little later, Lewis Dunk.

Then almost nothing for a decade...

Ben White if you count him as 'our' product, was a big one, but him aside, I think Hayden Roberts (now at Bristol City) is the only CB we've produced in many years.

Lots of hope for Freddie Simmonds, who will hopefully make the grade in 3 or 4 years' time - but you'd hope that we'd at least always have somebody there in the wings, capable of a back up / bench role, when required.

Ed Turns, possibly in that bracket now?

Turns' first loan to Orient was good - he helped them win promotion, but the next season, when they were in League 1 we pulled the loan because he wasn't getting game time, and he reverted to League 2 again. That suggests to me that (for now, at least - though late development is always a possibility) that we've found his level, and I would expect us to be moving him on (like Weir).
Shame really - a couple of years ago him and Tsoungui looked like a cracking CB pairing in PL2.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

It is a good point. Until that post in the other thread about centre backs, I hadn't really thought about it but it's a fair cop. Unfortunately, @AZ Gull will be taking some well earned rest right now so maybe he will have some insights into our future centre backs coming through.

I don't think we've produced ourselves a left back since the glory days of Kerry Mayo and then, to a lesser extent, Sam Rents. Shout out for Dan Harding, I hope he's recovered from what that nasty William Buckley did to him in that brief Amex appearance.

We brought through Alex Cochrane, who really looked like he was worth giving a first team chance - but ultimately left and played 100 top level games for Hearts, before moving to Birmingham this summer. He's reached a higher level than Mayo or Rents, despite not making it to our first team.

Also James Furlong, who again looked very good in our U21s but is now at Hull (and out on loan this season at AFC Wimbledon).

 

[GT49er]

We brought through Alex Cochrane, who really looked like he was worth giving a first team chance - but ultimately left and played 100 top level games for Hearts, before moving to Birmingham this summer. He's reached a higher level than Mayo or Rents, despite not making it to our first team.

Also James Furlong, who again looked very good in our U21s but is now at Hull (and out on loan this season at AFC Wimbledon).

Like Cochrane, Furlong also did pretty well on loan in the SPL.

 

[Withdean South Stand]

We brought through Alex Cochrane, who really looked like he was worth giving a first team chance - but ultimately left and played 100 top level games for Hearts, before moving to Birmingham this summer. He's reached a higher level than Mayo or Rents, despite not making it to our first team.

Also James Furlong, who again looked very good in our U21s but is now at Hull (and out on loan this season at AFC Wimbledon).

Like Cochrane, Furlong also did pretty well on loan in the SPL.

I knew of both and had immediately forgotten them - I think this is probably part of the problem, and a little bit why I'm keen for AZ to weigh in. We used to produce players almost exclusively for our first team, now we're producing players but they're having careers away from us so it's a little harder to keep them all front of mind. I listened to the club's interview with Shannon Ruth yesterday and it was extraordinary listening to him rattle off the names of players who have come through our academy and are having good careers in the Football League and beyond.

 

[jackalbion]

I like a couple of our CBs at the moment, mainly McConville and I do rate Jackson

 

[Mellotron]

Is it not also that we've just stepped up massively? Who was the last young English academy player to really make a mark on our side?

i.e. a lot of those players - if they came through now - wouldn't be anywhere near good enough for our starting 11 (bar Dunk obvs) so you wouldn't have heard of them/thought of them as anything more than what we think of a Jensen Weir type now (I know he's a midfielder but hopefully you get my point). If that makes sense.

 

[Clive Walker]

Noel Atom!

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Noel Atom!

a. We've not 'produced' Atom

b. he looks rubbish!

 

[Bakero]

Is it not also that we've just stepped up massively? Who was the last young English academy player to really make a mark on our side?

i.e. a lot of those players - if they came through now - wouldn't be anywhere near good enough for our starting 11 (bar Dunk obvs) so you wouldn't have heard of them/thought of them as anything more than what we think of a Jensen Weir type now (I know he's a midfielder but hopefully you get my point). If that makes sense.

Before Hinshelwood, you mean?

Surely, Ben White. Only a year but he certainly made his mark. Before that I guess it was March and that was 2013/14.

The thing is would even Dunk break through now? It's incredibly hard to integrate young players into a Premier League side, especially centre backs.

 

[POSKETT AT THE VALLEY]

What about Grant Horscroft?

 

[AZ Gull]

The higher up the leagues you go, the more difficult it is to produce the level of talent that will be able to break into your side. Dunk's initial experience of senior men's football was playing for Isthmian League Bognor. His first couple of seasons of being within the Albion's first team squad was at League One level. For a couple of seasons he was hardly making any appearances for the first team in the Championship and he had another loan spell out in League One. You really have to wonder - if Dunk came through the ranks now, would he be able to break into the team?

Some of our existing (and recent) academy players have had early experiences and loan spells that would knock Dunk's early years into a cocked hat - but they are trying to break into a top-half Premier League side. You would have to show exceptional talent at an exceptionally early age to stand a chance of breaking into this first team squad (and, thankfully, we have been able to produce such talent in the forms of Evan Ferguson and Jack Hinshelwood).

Quite simply, it's f***ing hard to produce young players that will be good enough for our first team squad. We can go out and buy almost any player from anywhere in the world - that's the competition for these academy lads.

On the topic of centre-backs - I do think that Ruairi McConville has a chance, and Charlie Penman is also worth keeping an eye on. Of course, the great hope is Freddie Simmonds, but Jacob Vickers (still only the age of a 2nd-year scholar) has had an impressive start to this U-21 campaign.

 

[Albion Robster]

Agreed, Jacob Vickers (signed from Luton last season) has looked a good prospect alongside Simmonds in the two games he's played.
But Simmonds looks a hell of a prospect, big build and physique for a 16 year old.

 

[ac gull]

we have diversified into goalkeepers

 

[Kosh]

a. We've not 'produced' Atom

b. he looks rubbish!

True, the little bits I’ve seen… well, hes not the next Lothar Mattheus that’s for sure.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I suspect that we are actually turning out more players who become professional footballers than we ever have. Top half Premier league players, not so much, but have we ever had a time with four home local lads playing in the top half of the premier (Dunk, Solly, Webster and Hinshelwood), let alone all playing for us.

I can't think of four sussex boys whose careers overlapped at that very top level regardless of teams