Central midfield

[perseus]

JFC has been very good all season, the most consistently decent player we have in central midfield. Been let down by his partners of late for me.

He looks like Will Hughes did, apparently not very good at first. But , alas, we have not seen his shooting or incisive pass. Ball retention is goodish. Because he is left footed he gets a place on the left hand side. Aggression is not his strong point.

He is the reason why Orlandi was superfluous. And maybe Agustien as well?

 

[Hornblower]

LI, are you seriously not on a wind up? You accuse people of having an agenda against Sami and then have the nerve to say we were most overrun when Ince came on!

All the chances, all the free space their #18 kept picking the ball up in, all the last ditch blocks, all the danger to our goal pretty much immediately stopped when Ince came on.

I am not saying it suddenly made us play well because we were dire on Tuesday and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. However it did mean that the last 15 minutes, a time when you would expect a team who haven't won in a dozen games to be hanging on for dear life, went by relatively without danger.

Ince should have come on 10 mins into the second half, the fact that the coaching staff couldn't see this is frightening.

100% this. I've said it before but it never ceases to amaze me how people see the game differently. For me, the second half on Tuesday was one of the most clueless, gutless and hopeless Albion displays I have seen at the Amex and the only reason we didn't lose 5:1 was due to Wigan's appalling finishing. I mostly put our poor display down to a feckless midfield with Gardner being chief but far from the only culprit. That said, a good friend who sits 3 seats away thought we did OK. It's a funny old game.

 

[Machiavelli]

It feels like Stephens, March and Bruno have just fallen into a black hole. No news in AGES.

There has been a bit of news. Stephens is not too far away now (although Blackburn will probably come too soon), Bruno should be back after the international break, whereas March is both long-term and with no even general estimate of a return offered. All of this from recent Argus reports.

 

[Machiavelli]

When fit back five picks itself (although Walton might be upsetting this).
If we're going to play three up front, with Baldock/CMS/A.N.Other further forward in the middle, and flanked by two (from Colunga, Tex, Bennett, KLL, etc), I'd rather see two more defensively minded midfielders and one slightly more advanced and creative.
My preferred combination -- if all fit -- would be Holla, Ince and Stephens. Between them, they've got the strength, vision, guile and dynamism to form an effective midfield. Holla needs to sit and distribute, a la Xabi Alonso. I'd rather see Ince playing more a Patrick Viera role, with a licence to get forward -- provided the other two cover appropriately -- although his primary role is destructive and defensive. Stephens is both dynamic and creative, and can score goals. I'd like to see the three of them develop an understanding.
JFC is our next best midfield player, and he -- and the remaining two others -- is versatile enough to adapt to this midfield. Gardner must be on some agreement to play, although I don't think he's as bad as many on here think.
Tex, March and McCourt could also be brought into such a midfield, if we need to break a team down in the last half an hour of a game.

 

[Mellotron]

There has been a bit of news. Stephens is not too far away now (although Blackburn will probably come too soon), Bruno should be back after the international break, whereas March is both long-term and with no even general estimate of a return offered. All of this from recent Argus reports.

I guess I've just stopped bothering to read the Argus' Albion stuff. Thanks.

 

[London Irish]

LI, are you seriously not on a wind up? You accuse people of having an agenda against Sami and then have the nerve to say we were most overrun when Ince came on!

All the chances, all the free space their #18 kept picking the ball up in, all the last ditch blocks, all the danger to our goal pretty much immediately stopped when Ince came on.

I am not saying it suddenly made us play well because we were dire on Tuesday and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. However it did mean that the last 15 minutes, a time when you would expect a team who haven't won in a dozen games to be hanging on for dear life, went by relatively without danger.

Ince should have come on 10 mins into the second half, the fact that the coaching staff couldn't see this is frightening.

Skint Gull, you know this is football, right? - it's entirely possible someone could have a different opinion to you, please respect that. So no, I am not on a "wind up".

My view is Ince made practically no difference to the weight of possession against us, in fact it was in that last period of the game while he was in our midfield that we were under the most pressure.

I realise many fans like his ability to get stuck in but I find his lack of technique in contributing to a passing game a big problem - if you can't keep the ball, then you invite pressure and that's exactly what was happening to us all the time Ince was on the pitch. Was he the only one to blame for that, of course not, but he made little positive difference.

 

[Mattywerewolf]

Skint Gull, you know this is football, right? - it's entirely possible someone could have a different opinion to you, please respect that. So no, I am not on a "wind up".

My view is Ince made practically no difference to the weight of possession against us, in fact it was in that last period of the game while he was in our midfield that we were under the most pressure.

I realise many fans like his ability to get stuck in but I find his lack of technique in contributing to a passing game a big problem - if you can't keep the ball, then you invite pressure and that's exactly what was happening to us all the time Ince was on the pitch. Was he the only one to blame for that, of course not, but he made little positive difference.

Personally i completely respect your opinion, but feel that Ince solidified the midfield when it was otherwise being overrun. I, like many others on here, wanted him introduced soon after half time when this became clear. The system didn't look great after that but it did plug some holes and meant we won more of the aerial battle and cemented the win. IMO Tex, JFC and Gardner in midfield looks too lightweight as per other threads on NSC. Looking forward to Stephens when he comes back

 

[Marshy]

Skint Gull, you know this is football, right? - it's entirely possible someone could have a different opinion to you, please respect that. So no, I am not on a "wind up".

My view is Ince made practically no difference to the weight of possession against us, in fact it was in that last period of the game while he was in our midfield that we were under the most pressure.

I realise many fans like his ability to get stuck in but I find his lack of technique in contributing to a passing game a big problem - if you can't keep the ball, then you invite pressure and that's exactly what was happening to us all the time Ince was on the pitch. Was he the only one to blame for that, of course not, but he made little positive difference.

I agree LI, I simply don't trust Ince on the ball yet, he is still like Bambi on ice for me.
This is where JFC comes into his own, even in tight areas he can be trusted to look after the ball, a dying art and one that people are not appreciating enough.
I like Ince and I am not against having him in the side but not at the expense of JFC.

 

[London Irish]

I agree LI, I simply don't trust Ince on the ball yet, he is still like Bambi on ice for me.
This is where JFC comes into his own, even in tight areas he can be trusted to look after the ball, a dying art and one that people are not appreciating enough.
I like Ince and I am not against having him in the side but not at the expense of JFC.

For me he looks every bit a converted centre back. But fans love a trier though, I accept that. Agreed that JFC should be part of a more attacking, passing midfield line-up - and yes Matty I'd take Stephens over Gardner.

The disappointment for me has been Holla, not nailed down his spot either as a destructive player or a constructive one

 

[Machiavelli]

I guess I've just stopped bothering to read the Argus' Albion stuff. Thanks.

That's because you are wiser than I am.

 

[Machiavelli]

I like Ince and I am not against having him in the side but not at the expense of JFC.

I like JFC and am not against having him in the side but not at the expense of Ince.

 

[Machiavelli]

Skint Gull, you know this is football, right? - it's entirely possible someone could have a different opinion to you, please respect that. So no, I am not on a "wind up".

My view is Ince made practically no difference to the weight of possession against us, in fact it was in that last period of the game while he was in our midfield that we were under the most pressure.

I realise many fans like his ability to get stuck in but I find his lack of technique in contributing to a passing game a big problem - if you can't keep the ball, then you invite pressure and that's exactly what was happening to us all the time Ince was on the pitch. Was he the only one to blame for that, of course not, but he made little positive difference.

I do accept that Ince hasn't maintained the form he showed for so much of last season and that, at times, he needs too many touches to keep the ball under possession, but he's a very different sort of player to most of our other midfielders, and possesses a lot of qualities.
I do not remember Ince giving the ball away when he came on the other night, and think he was the one that was doing the most to restrict Wigan from crafting (m)any decent opportunities.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

JFC will ensure we retain possession. Ince will win it. I am not sure why it would be a choice of one of the other.

 

[BensGrandad]

Skint Gull, you know this is football, right? - it's entirely possible someone could have a different opinion to you, please respect that. So no, I am not on a "wind up".

My view is Ince made practically no difference to the weight of possession against us, in fact it was in that last period of the game while he was in our midfield that we were under the most pressure.

I realise many fans like his ability to get stuck in but I find his lack of technique in contributing to a passing game a big problem - if you can't keep the ball, then you invite pressure and that's exactly what was happening to us all the time Ince was on the pitch. Was he the only one to blame for that, of course not, but he made little positive difference.

Unusual for London Irish to be right but he is on this occasion Ince did not do as was expected, tighten up the midfield.

 

[Marshy]

JFC will ensure we retain possession. Ince will win it. I am not sure why it would be a choice of one of the other.

Agreed, pair them up with a fit Stephens and we would have a more balanced looking line up.

 

[Keeping The Dream Alive.]

For me he looks every bit a converted centre back. But fans love a trier though, I accept that. Agreed that JFC should be part of a more attacking, passing midfield line-up - and yes Matty I'd take Stephens over Gardner.

The disappointment for me has been Holla, not nailed down his spot either as a destructive player or a constructive one

To imply the main reason certain fans love Ince is because he is a 'trier' is a bit of an underhand dig of their football knowledge. Ince is a 'trier', but there is more to his game than that for fans to rate him. Clearly his first touch isn't great and he is too one-footed, but he is a good tackler, a reasonable reader of the game, an imposing pressence and pretty quick. All attrbiutes that have proved useful when he has played in midfield for us - particualrly when in a decent system and under a manager with at least some tactical nous. He shouldn't be the first name on the team sheet by any means, but I think Sami easily could have used him more than he has this season.

 

[BensGrandad]

To imply the main reason certain fans love Ince is because he is a 'trier' is a bit of an underhand dig of their football knowledge. Ince is a 'trier', but there is more to his game than that for fans to rate him. Clearly his first touch isn't great and he is too one-footed, but he is a good tackler, a reasonable reader of the game, an imposing pressence and pretty quick. All attrbiutes that have proved useful when he has played in midfield for us - particualrly when in a decent system and under a manager with at least some tactical nous. He shouldn't be the first name on the team sheet by any means, but I think Sami easily could have used him more than he has this season.

He has very little in his favour to warrant a starting place over others as a midfielder and is behind all those picked and understandably so. His reading and anticipation of the game is what you would expect with his lack of experience but this will improve. His heading for a tall man is poor and non directional and his tackling in general is clumsy. His attributes are he is keen and tries hard and will always give 100%. He is a nuisance to opposing midfielders as he will not let them rest on the ball and although very one footed he can make short passes accurately. A good prospect but no where near a certain starter.

 

[ezzoud]

if you can't keep the ball, then you invite pressure

Don't think anyone will argue with that, yet IIRC you made KLL man of the match on Tuesday and his second half display seemed, to me at least, to consist of little other than giving the ball away which largely contributed to the overrun feel of things.