catalonia independence vote......

[Westdene Seagull]

And in another sign that the political elite in Spain ( alongside their EU puppeteers ) are scared ......... the thugs, sorry police, had no identification tags on. Hmmmm .......

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Who just happens to be Spanish.

You appear to be defending the indefensible for the sake of the EU project. Not unlike the elites whose silence is deafening. Elderly women beaten for the sake of pan European ideology. If this were happening in the U.K. under a Tory Government there would be widespread condemnation from the EU and from its vociferous liberal, pro EU, NSC supporters.
I guess it's just too important to Northern European economies to avoid disruption to the supply of cheap labour from the south.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

The Vice President of the EU:

[TWEET]914591461357838337[/TWEET]

The EU are on their way to getting their own army don't forget.

Makes me shudder.

One thing is for sure, the EU hates it when the democratic will of the people doesn't coincide with its own aims. Hence re-holding referenda if the 'right' result isn't achieved and now this abysmal attitude when a member state attacks its own people. The Spanish govts attitude and now the EU, will only reinforce the leavers. Sound familiar?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Who just happens to be Spanish.

But interesting that he calls the vote nationalistic. I thought the premise the Madrid authorities were working on was that Catalan is not a nation?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

You appear to be defending the indefensible for the sake of the EU project. Not unlike the elites whose silence is deafening. Elderly women beaten for the sake of pan European ideology. If this were happening in the U.K. under a Tory Government there would be widespread condemnation from the EU and from its vociferous liberal, pro EU, NSC supporters.
I guess it's just too important to Northern European economies to avoid disruption to the supply of cheap labour from the south.

Nail, head.

 

[Marty___Mcfly]

90% pro independence being claimed

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...n-ref-polling-stations?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I've been watching this with horror most of the day, still can't find the words.

Spain is dead to me. Long live the nation of Catalonia.

Drama Llama

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

One thing is for sure, the EU hates it when the democratic will of the people doesn't coincide with its own aims. Hence re-holding referenda if the 'right' result isn't achieved and now this abysmal attitude when a member state attacks its own people. The Spanish govts attitude and now the EU, will only reinforce the leavers. Sound familiar?

The EU has made a lot of noise about protecting its citizens in the U.K. after Brexit. Clearly it is less concerned about protecting its Catalan citizens.

 

[Jim D]

The EU has made a lot of noise about protecting its citizens in the U.K. after Brexit. Clearly it is less concerned about protecting its Catalan citizens.

The only people in Spain that the EU wants to protect are the riot police.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The EU has made a lot of noise about protecting its citizens in the U.K. after Brexit. Clearly it is less concerned about protecting its Catalan citizens.

Indeed. Although the EU claiming to have citizens when it's not a state (yet) does somewhat show how arrogant it is.

 

[Bakero]

You appear to be defending the indefensible for the sake of the EU project. Not unlike the elites whose silence is deafening. Elderly women beaten for the sake of pan European ideology. If this were happening in the U.K. under a Tory Government there would be widespread condemnation from the EU and from its vociferous liberal, pro EU, NSC supporters.
I guess it's just too important to Northern European economies to avoid disruption to the supply of cheap labour from the south.

You seem to have misunderstood me. What I was hinting at was that Valcarcel's views are those of an anti-Catalonian Spaniard. I was by no means defending him or the actions of the police. I've been a vocal critic of the Spanish government in relation to this.

But interesting that he calls the vote nationalistic. I thought the premise the Madrid authorities were working on was that Catalan is not a nation?

Good point.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

The Vice President of the EU:

[TWEET]914591461357838337[/TWEET]

The EU are on their way to getting their own army don't forget.

Makes me shudder.

He's a Spanish Unionist representing the 'People's Party'. They have some representatives in Catalonia but not many.

It's not surprising to hear him say that, it just sums up that the EU is an anti-democratic racket which will use any means necessary to stop its centralised power on steroids leaking away.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

If such scenes were happening in Moscow or Ukraine there would be condemnation from the EU......

This in spades.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

You appear to be defending the indefensible for the sake of the EU project. Not unlike the elites whose silence is deafening. Elderly women beaten for the sake of pan European ideology. If this were happening in the U.K. under a Tory Government there would be widespread condemnation from the EU and from its vociferous liberal, pro EU, NSC supporters.
I guess it's just too important to Northern European economies to avoid disruption to the supply of cheap labour from the south.

Also - this

 

[Simster]

The EU shouldn't be getting involved in this at all, it has nothing to do with them. But equally, Brexiteers on here should be looking at the Spanish state rather than the EU for answers, as the EU is not where the problem is as far as I can see. It seems totally wrong that a nation of nations like Spain doesn't appear to have a mechanism whereby these inner nations/regions can't vote for more autonomy or outright independence, regardless of their position with respect to the EU. The constituent nations of the UK have this ability, Canadian provinces do too, so why can't the Catalan/Basque/Galician people have a voice?

 

[The Large One]

The EU shouldn't be getting involved in this at all, it has nothing to do with them. But equally, Brexiteers on here should be looking at the Spanish state rather than the EU for answers, as the EU is not where the problem is as far as I can see. It seems totally wrong that a nation of nations like Spain doesn't appear to have a mechanism whereby these inner nations/regions can't vote for more autonomy or outright independence, regardless of their position with respect to the EU. The constituent nations of the UK have this ability, Canadian provinces do too, so why can't the Catalan/Basque/Galician people have a voice?

Quite. This stuff predates not only Spain's membership of what is now the EU, but the EU's forerunners themselves. Catalonia was promised some further autonomy; Rajoy, when he got into power, refused to approve it.

It's not unreasonable to point out - as many political commentators have done - that (and this is where there is a parallel with Scotland) Catalonia's rise in the notion of self-determinism has been fairly well fuelled by the right-wing central government's double-faced attitude towards the region.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The EU shouldn't be getting involved in this at all, it has nothing to do with them. But equally, Brexiteers on here should be looking at the Spanish state rather than the EU for answers, as the EU is not where the problem is as far as I can see. It seems totally wrong that a nation of nations like Spain doesn't appear to have a mechanism whereby these inner nations/regions can't vote for more autonomy or outright independence, regardless of their position with respect to the EU. The constituent nations of the UK have this ability, Canadian provinces do too, so why can't the Catalan/Basque/Galician people have a voice?

I don't think anyone is suggesting the EU should get 'involved'. It's just very telling that the EU is very willing to comment on events outside it's borders, Ukraine for example, but repression and police violence within one of it's member states is met with complete silence rather than condemnation. This BBC article is an interesting read - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41464712

 

[Simster]

I don't think anyone is suggesting the EU should get 'involved'. It's just very telling that the EU is very willing to comment on events outside it's borders, Ukraine for example, but repression and police violence within one of it's member states is met with complete silence rather than condemnation. This BBC article is an interesting read - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41464712

I don't dispute any of that, but it was obvious they were going to remain silent on this issue. It's a situation that is the last thing a federalist EU wants. If you Brexit people are going to rant on and on about the EU being hypocrites, you may want to balance that with the fact that Catalonians overwhelmingly wish to stay in the EU regardless of whether or not they break from Spain. That seems to be something none of you want to discuss. Funny that.

As I say, the real issue is not the EU's position on state brutality or lack of democracy (you might want to take a look at some of the disgusting regimes supported by western powers, including the EU, UK, US for more examples of breathtaking international hypocrisy), it is the Spanish state's appalling contempt for the democracy of it's regions, which are tantamount to nations. They need a voice and they haven't got one.

 

[dingodan]

The EU shouldn't be getting involved in this at all, it has nothing to do with them. But equally, Brexiteers on here should be looking at the Spanish state rather than the EU for answers, as the EU is not where the problem is as far as I can see. It seems totally wrong that a nation of nations like Spain doesn't appear to have a mechanism whereby these inner nations/regions can't vote for more autonomy or outright independence, regardless of their position with respect to the EU. The constituent nations of the UK have this ability, Canadian provinces do too, so why can't the Catalan/Basque/Galician people have a voice?

Interesting how inconsistent the EU is though isn't it?

In some parts of the world this happens and there is outcry from the EU, calling for peoples desires for independance to be respected.

But when it's a "friend", there is just silence, or even a call for the "law to be respected". Seems a little hypocritical to me.

 

[Simster]

Interesting how inconsistent the EU is though isn't it?

In some parts of the world this happens and there is outcry from the EU, calling for peoples desires for independance to be respected.

But when it's a "friend", there is just silence, or even a call for the "law to be respected". Seems a little hypocritical to me.

Yes, yes, I've already agreed with that. It's also "interesting" that you haven't said a word on the fact that Catalonia overwhelmingly wishes to stay in the EU. The point is that you little Englanders want to make this incident all about the EU because it suits your agenda. It's got nothing to do with the EU in reality.