[Brighton] Cashless AMEX

[Diablo]

No from me .... I hate using debit/credit cards for small amounts.

 

[London Irish]

Cashless unfairly impacts on poorer people. There's the ability to have a card, or a card that has sufficient funds to use. Money advice service always talk about budgeting, which is harder to do when you're not handling actual money and it's all digital.

Having said that, since the flask ban, I've refused to spend anything at the amex, so it's largely irrelevant to me.

Same

 

[Sue1983]

Good idea until one day the wifi goes down and the cash only signs go up.

This happened to us at the friendly against Valencia, they couldn't get the card machine to connect so they asked us to pay in cash!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I do not consider myself rich, but I able to live my life without a constant worry of how I'm going to pay for my next meal, I can afford luxuries and treats and am sure there are section of society that would say I am. Going cashless at the amex will not affect me. But I am aware that the move to cashless is causing issues around the world for poor people, students, pensioners, and the homeless, though perhaps am not the best person to fully explain the practicalities. I would also perhaps caution the dangers of the tendency to sit in a comfortable life with simplistic 'why not just...'. There's a lot of complexities that one can't necessarily appreciate unless you experience them. A lot of pensioners may struggle with smart phones, for example. These still require you to have a day-to-day bank account (some people might only have a savings account or building society account that doesn't allow easy access).

Here are a few articles

But cash remains an economic necessity for an estimated 25 million people in the UK, most notably the 1.3 million who don’t have bank accounts.
https://qz.com/1516563/cashless-societies-are-harmful-for-the-poor-elderly-and-homeless/

Credit and debit card payments cost traders on average three times as much as cash because they have to pay a service charge to the bank that processes the payment. Part of that, the interchange fee, is passed to the card issuer and most of the rest, the scheme fee, goes to Visa or Mastercard.

The EU capped interchange fees in 2015 and, this year, banned traders from recouping the cost through a surcharge on card transactions. However, Visa and Mastercard have diverted the savings into their coffers by quietly doubling their scheme fees. Businesses now pay nearly £1bn a year more in these charges than in 2015 and small businesses, such as cafes and corner shops, are disproportionately hit.
...
More than half of the 2.7 million people who rely mainly on cash have a household income of less than £15,000. They are being increasingly penalised as the best deals for utilities, telecoms and even train tickets are only available online to cardholders, while universal credit will only be transferred to a bank or building society account, without the previous option of cash cheques redeemable at post offices. And whereas before the ban on card surcharges only customers who chose to pay with plastic bore the cost of the transaction, now the poorest and the unbanked have to share the bill.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/oct/01/cashless-britain-banks-atms

It is easier to spend more than you intend when you are paying for your lunch with a credit card, to get the fizzy grapefruit drink when, really, you’d be fine with water. When cash is renounced you carry less of it, or maybe even none of it. And so you are not as prone to certain spontaneous acts of generosity — to put a few dollars in a tip jar where workers are underpaid or give money to a homeless person on a cold night on your way home from work.

Forcing people to use credit cards also forces them into compromising their privacy while paradoxically making everyday exchanges feel more impersonal. Businesses see this as efficiency, and efficiency is profit. And as the recent revelations from Facebook suggest, what else matters?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/06/nyregion/how-the-cashless-economy-shuts-out-the-poor.html

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi has a grand ambition to make his country into a cashless society. In 2014, he launched a scheme to provide bank accounts to the nearly 40 percent of the population with little or no access to financial services. In November 2016, he withdrew 500 and 1,000 rupee notes ($7.80 and $15.60), the country’s two most common banknotes, from circulation.

The aim was to clamp down on black-market money and get more people into the formal economy, but it had a negative effect on the poor, with micro and small-scale service businesses cutting 35 percent of staff in the first few months, and some families left unable to afford fruit and vegetables.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cashless-society-poor-exclusion_n_5a857082e4b0ab6daf463c4a

With cashlessness becoming a new economic frontier, the effects of such state-led policies on cash-dependent economies must be considered seriously before they are indiscriminately introduced. My work in India leads me to believe that cash plays an important role in our modern economy, particularly among the poor, and those urging a cashless future should do so with great caution.
http://theconversation.com/why-a-cashless-society-would-hurt-the-poor-a-lesson-from-india-79735

If history is any indication, the effects of these technological changes on society’s most vulnerable people won’t be considered until they’ve become a reality.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/12/cashless-amazon-walmart-workers/578377/

According to new research by customer advice website Which?, the nationwide trend towards cashless transactions will have a harmful effect on the most vulnerable demographics in UK society, including low-income households and pensioners who are the most likely to use cash on a day-to-day basis.
https://www.moneyexpert.com/news/mo...proportionately-affect-pensioners-poorest-uk/


And again, the advice for money saving:
https://www.savethestudent.org/save-money/lifestyle/14-ways-to-save-money-on-a-night-out.html

avoid buying rounds save money

However much you wanna be the good guy, don't get pulled into buying full rounds of drinks, especially if you're out in a large group. You can't afford to party like you're in Made in Chelsea, and if you can, what are you doing reading this guide?

Treating your mates to a round might seem like a nice thing to do, but it rarely works out fairly and often forces you into buying booze when you don't even want any more to drink.

If you do get roped into rounds, why not use this opportunity to save cash (and give your liver a break) by getting yourself a soft drink this time round (whatever it is, ask for a slice of lime in it and no one will even know the difference!).
Ditch the credit cards

don't take credit card on night out

Ever looked at your bank balance the morning after and had the shock of your life? Taking your debit or credit card out with you is never a good idea as it's so easy to lose track of how much you've spent (as mentioned above, this is where prepaids come in handy!).

Do yourself a favour and leave the credit cards at home – we promise they won't get lonely.




We also had a thread on here recently about spending abroad. We hope to appeal to football tourists, people who are visiting the country from overseas who maybe don't want to use their bank cards in a foreign country because of the exchange fees.

I hear you. And I am sympathetic to the vulnerable. But how do we move forward with this? Sweden is well advanced with cashless-society so how have they dealt with this issue? Or haven’t they? And this is a genuine question, how do pensioners obtain their pension? Surely their money gets paid into an account? How do they then withdraw this money? Do they use a card?

And part of me does think if I was watching my pennies I wouldn’t even think about buying the over-priced crap at the stadium let alone which method I’d use to pay for it

 

[Springal]

Good idea until one day the wifi goes down and the cash only signs go up.

Do you not drive your car because one day it will breakdown?

 

[Acker79]

I hear you. And I am sympathetic to the vulnerable. But how do we move forward with this? Sweden is well advanced with cashless-society so how have they dealt with this issue? Or haven’t they? And this is a genuine question, how do pensioners obtain their pension? Surely their money gets paid into an account? How do they then withdraw this money? Do they use a card?

And part of me does think if I was watching my pennies I wouldn’t even think about buying the over-priced crap at the stadium let alone which method I’d use to pay for it

I don't remember now if it was one of the articles I linked to above or one of the others I saw while putting it together but it noted that there wasn't as much or as extreme wealth inequality in Sweden, and even then it did harm the poorer in the short term (I didn't catch the specifics, I was trying to give an overall flavour so didn't dwell). They also pointed out there is a small population there, which makes getting everyone on the same page simpler.

 

[Durlston]

I only carry cash but I'm not a drug dealer.

 

[DumLum]

Do you not drive your car because one day it will breakdown?

If I drove a car that ran on wifi I would keep a fold up bicycle in the boot.

I guess it would work as long as the club had a Plan B.For example insurance for loss of takings and staff trained to give all the food and soft drinks away for free rather than demand the exact money without a float in the till.

 

[Springal]

If I drove a car that ran on wifi I would keep a fold up bicycle in the boot.

I guess it would work as long as the club had a Plan B.For example insurance for loss of takings and staff trained to give all the food and soft drinks away for free rather than demand the exact money without a float in the till.

How do you think the turnstiles validate your ticket? Has there ever been issues with the turnstiles?
In the WSU since we'e been at the AMEX I can't think of a time when the card machines have not worked

 

[DumLum]

Fair enough but it could happen as potentially it's out of the club's control. If there was a fault with their network or bank?

 

[Captain Sensible]

Can’t we just have contactless at all tills and some cash tills. So that those who want to hold up the service with notes and coins can do. The rest of us can get in a fast moving que, flicking our debit cards and phones to pay.
Of course this is all depending on Sodexo getting decent people in to serve the fans at acceptable speeds. I am Fully prepared for the West Ham game to be a kiosk mess! As the students aren’t back and we will have a bunch of clueless people behind the kiosk.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Fair enough but it could happen as potentially it's out of the club's control. If there was a fault with their network or bank?

Do you need to be connected to the network for cashless? I have used cashless on London Underground and planes; I’m pretty sure they can’t be checking my details via a internet/WiFi connection in real time.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Can’t we just have contactless at all tills and some cash tills. So that those who want to hold up the service with notes and coins can do. The rest of us can get in a fast moving que, flicking our debit cards and phones to pay.
Of course this is all depending on Sodexo getting decent people in to serve the fans at acceptable speeds. I am Fully prepared for the West Ham game to be a kiosk mess! As the students aren’t back and we will have a bunch of clueless people behind the kiosk.

Surely that is exactly what we currently have?

And yes the students are back and yes they are very slow atm judging by the service in the North Stand for the Valencia game, but at least they now have a little practise!

 

[Captain Sensible]

Surely that is exactly what we currently have?

Is it? In the east upper last season there were still 2 or 3 tills saying cash only!

 

[Swansman]

Cashless society is dystopian, so **** that.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Is it? In the east upper last season there were still 2 or 3 tills saying cash only!

Sorry, yes I see what you mean now!

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

avoid buying rounds save money

I like your thinking

 

[DumLum]

Do you need to be connected to the network for cashless? I have used cashless on London Underground and planes; I’m pretty sure they can’t be checking my details via a internet/WiFi connection in real time.

Pass. When contactless started debit cards didn't need authorization. More recently our experience at a small business is our customers debit cards need authorization but credit cards don't?

 

[Pantani]

Cashless unfairly impacts on poorer people. There's the ability to have a card, or a card that has sufficient funds to use. Money advice service always talk about budgeting, which is harder to do when you're not handling actual money and it's all digital.

Having said that, since the flask ban, I've refused to spend anything at the amex, so it's largely irrelevant to me.

This, I am not hard up by any stretch but I use cash 100% of the time as a way to budget. I withdraw a bit less money than I can afford to spend each month, once it is gone it is gone. No more beers, or extravagant purchases after that.

 

[zefarelly]

cash is king . . . . no cash, no beer . . . .an old simple rule, and also no debt. you card warriors are slaves to the capitalist ****s.