Capital punishment !

[Poyetry In Motion]

I'm on the fence with capital punishment. There's quite a few humans I'd like to see executed, but it just isn't morally right to take another life - no matter what the provocation. I'd personally prefer our justice system to hand out proper punishments that fit the crime.
ie - life should mean life. Not.... life, but you get out in 9 years if you behave yourself.

 

[dingodan]

Just something I have been pondering over for a long time it really upsets me to see these cowardly evil scum getting away with going to prison and having a life of riley ,
play stations, colour TV's, free education, Gyms, DVds, etc etc when grieving relatives have to live out hell everyday of their lives !!
Isn't that enough of a reason ??

Prison = Deprivation of Liberty. It's not meant to be a hellish experience to satisfy the vengeful, sorry.

Revenge and Justice are two different things, and a civilized society seeks the latter.

 

[brakespear]

I can't back the state killing people - it makes them as bad as the murderers. Stick these people away and do pretty much what you like to them, but there's no excuse for taking a life (and no, I'm not religious)

This, plus the number of times people have been wrongly jailed for crimes.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

This, plus the number of times people have been wrongly jailed for crimes.

That's the issue with me too.

However, if there is ZERO chance that the wrong person has been convicted, and I mean ZERO, then I do think there is a debate to be had for certain crimes.

I'm no saying I'm in favour, but why should a person be jailed for 20 odd years, to be released after 15, when they have taken the life of a small child.

 

[brakespear]

That's the issue with me too.

However, if there is ZERO chance that the wrong person has been convicted, and I mean ZERO, then I do think there is a debate to be had for certain crimes.

I'm no saying I'm in favour, but why should a person be jailed for 20 odd years, to be released after 15, when they have taken the life of a small child.

I'd still be out because I just don't believe killing people is right. But I do believe that life in prison should equal that and that it should be pretty hard with it.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

I'd still be out because I just don't believe killing people is right. But I do believe that life in prison should equal that and that it should be pretty hard with it.

Nailed it. No rope,but NEVER RELEASED.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

If CCTV, independent witnesses, DNA and forensics all say someone carried out a murder and the defendent was found guilty, would there still be doubt in your mind?

Bit of a Utopia situation that one though isn't it ? Highly unlikely there would be all four.

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

I dont think we should have capital punishment and to anyone who actually knows me that might be a surprise. However i think the experience of prison should be one utter human hardship that just stumbles across the line of the relevant EU laws. If a convicted child rapist and murderer is found innocent then fair enough release them but until that point they are guilty and should be treated like the vermin they are.

 

[Racek]

If CCTV, independent witnesses, DNA and forensics all say someone carried out a murder and the defendent was found guilty, would there still be doubt in your mind?

back story might back a difference? If someone was put up to it and said, i will kill all of your family, then it would not be the death sentence? Or would it?

 

[Cheshire Cat]

My question to you is if it was one of your relatives/ children (and i really hope that never happens) what would you want done then ?
Put yourself in their shoes for a few minutes and think about it !!

I have and the answer is still "no".

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Would any of the ones who said no,still say no if there child was murdered by an animal like huntley?

Yes, I would. I would not be prepared to pull the lever, administer the injection, flick the switch or whatever, and would not expect anybody else to do it for me.

 

[User removed 4]

You can of course never measure to that level of conclusiveness that something acts as a deterrent as you can't ever know whether someone may have committed a crime had it not been for the threat of that punishment. You can only go by the statistics and in the case of capital punishment, that would probably be by comparing the homicide rate in this country with one where they do have capital punishment, for example the US!

When I was young, ie late teens, I thought there should be capital punishment but the intervening years have proved on far too many occasions that the wrong person has been convicted. The justice system makes mistakes although I would still suggest it is probably one of the more reliable in the world and in the end, it doesn't rely on the intelligence of the judiciary to determine if you are guilty but of 12 of your peers. We all saw in the Vicky Price case that you don't always get an intelligent jury. Would you like a jury like that to decide your fate when you knew you were innocent?

Just fyi I don't agree with capital punishment due to the very real possibility of police incompetence, but I just dont buy the argument that it isn't a deterrent , for some people it is.

 

[User removed 4]

The burden of proof is more with those who claim it's a deterrent.

Thanks for your singularly arbitrary decision on the matter.

 

[User removed 4]

1) Death PenaltyDeterrence
2) http://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/teaching_aids/books_articles/JLpaper.pdf A criminological survey into the death penalty
3)

4)

In regards to how socio-economical conditions contribute to crime. The links are obvious, surely? The working class, and more importantly appropriately looked at are the "underclass" Understanding Criminology: Current Theoretical Debates - Sandra Walklate - Google Books This page looks specifically at the connection between the underclass and crime, the evidence in UK crime statistics and socioeconomic statistics speak for themselves. The underclass communities are commonly inner-city, inner-cities have higher crime - but why? Generally due to lack of employment, labour skills and general education, the culture of the "gangsta" is largely associated with underclass, due to broken families and gangs replacing them. Gangs use illegitimate methods of earning money (or robbing it) in order to live, alas adding fuel to the fire. I can PM you more comprehensive details if you want.

You can PM whatever you want , if anything the charts you've provided prove my point , look at some of the non death penalty states , some of the wealthiest in the US

 

[daveinprague]

The state would have murdered the Birminhgam Six, and the Guildford four wouldnt they?

 

[gazingdown]

If CCTV, independent witnesses, DNA and forensics all say someone carried out a murder and the defendent was found guilty, would there still be doubt in your mind?

To be jailed in the 1st place, you had to be found guilty beyond all reasonable doubt YET STILL they they have got it wrong.

They don't have categories of "probably" guilty, let's jail them and "definitely" guilty, let's hang them

Many of us may want to hang those we consider "definitely guilty but no-one can (and no-one has) define a process that is 100% fail proof. Until there is, no death penalty.

Personally, I think a lifetime (as such) in prison is worse than death. This is often the case as many lifers top themselves (or try to).

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Thanks for your singularly arbitrary decision on the matter.

But it's not arbitary. Some people on the pro death penalty side will always trot out the" proper deterrent" claim. They never support this with any evidence. If you are making a claim for something to be a deterrent then the onus is on you to back it up.
For what it's worth as far as i can tell there's no really good evidence either way. I suspect that in the US the death penalty and murder rates are linked but not causally, i.e theres an underlying factor which causes states to both have a higher violent crime rate and use the death penalty.

 

[The Spanish]

But it's not arbitary. Some people on the pro death penalty side will always trot out the" proper deterrent" claim. They never support this with any evidence. If you are making a claim for something to be a deterrent then the onus is on you to back it up.
For what it's worth as far as i can tell there's no really good evidence either way. I suspect that in the US the death penalty and murder rates are linked but not causally, i.e theres an underlying factor which causes states to both have a higher violent crime rate and use the death penalty.

yet another arbitary decision on your part. is this an actual rule, or just something you believe? its the latter. the two are not the same.

 

[The Spanish]

If there is a chance an innocent person could be killed by the state then no way.

stefan kiszko was effectively killed by the state, without a rope in sight. people are still sentenced to death in this country, it just takes thirty years longer. all this oh they have playstations bollocks is a massive red herring. being squeamish about judicial executions is not necessarily the same as getting it right morally.

 

[Paxton Dazo]

I don't think rapists, murders, peadophiles, etc deserved to be murdered as that would probably only last a second or 2. People like this needed to be tortured. Not fed or watered, and let the scumbags die a slow & painful death. Not only would this free up prison space, but would also make them suffer.

Death penalty is an awful idea.