[Albion] Cancelled Season Tickets

[patchamalbion]

There's absolutely no reason to read beyond:-

I have supported the Albion for 40 years and I have held at least two season tickets since 1984, with the only break being the Archer years at Gillingham. I have held a season ticket for myself and my twins boys since moving to the Amex; my boys are now aged 7

Or to put it another way:-

'I don't like a club policy, so to justify why I should be treated differently to everyone else, I will begin with just how fookin great I am ...'

followed by blah blah blah, and probably not all the whole truth.

100% this! There's is at least one of these thread every bloody year! Shock horror - a few of our 20,000 St holders aren't happy!

 

[Bozza]

Did the club also not say that random checks had revealed that adults were using children's tickets to enter the stadium.

Yep. And that is clearly completely wrong, and no one will disagree. But it's a different matter completely to the upgrade debate.

 

[Knotty]

All the lickers believing the club can do no wrong whilst showing little sympathy for a fellow supporter shows just how far we have come since the Amex I guess.

What a stupid generalisation!

So we should always defend the hard-done-by supporter against the evil club, should we? And anyone who agrees with the club on any particular issue is a 'licker'?

Such a childish attitude.

Are we not allowed to look at each such case on its merits and, sometimes, stand up for the club without being called a licker?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The issue here surely, is that at the moment, an upgrade is available for the difference between the pro-rata childs' ST match price (say £10) and the pro-rata full ST match price (£24) = £14.

One answer which would not actually be at all unreasonable, would be to make upgrades freely available at the difference between the £10 and the FULL one off adult price (say £32) = £22

That way the club still get the FULL adult price for the seat, the seat is used, the mate gets in for £22, everyone is fairly happy?

I'd suggest that if you were opposed to this suggestion then you are being unreasonable in your expectations. If so, then please justify.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

It seems the 6 upgrade maximum is catching out both the genuine children cannot do evening games lot, and the sneaky, selfish cheap seat resevers.

Alternative solutions :

1) Sell child season tickets with a no evening games option as well.

2) Increase the cost of upgrading a child season ticket.

3) Allow unlimited child upgrades for evening games. Allow just 1 or 2 upgrades for afternoon matches.

 

[Baldseagull]

If the club have changed T&C's after the O.P. renewed his tickets, and I believe they have, then whether it is deemed fair by NSC or not is irrelevant, he is not getting the full benefits that he signed up to and should be able to cancel.

For those that have never upgraded, it might seem like a reasonable policy to have just 6 upgrades a season, however anyone with a rebated season ticket had the ability to upgrade as often as they liked at the Amex in the past, and now they don't. The club should have notified all holders of rebated season tickets of this change, before renewal.
I think if this had been done there would have been much less upset and the club would have sold more adult priced season tickets. Club messed up on this, lost revenue and alienated some fans by the poor communication.

 

[atomised]

Was it not the case previously that the full difference was charged but the new software doesnt offer that

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Are you being taken to court, as you put it, for reneging on your monthly direct debit payments to the club? If so, being halfway through the season that would be a sizeable chunk of revenue that the club are not getting, despite the fact the agreement (contract) deems it that payment is in 12 monthly instalments.

Exactly this. It's an interest free loan from April to March. I think you can cancel it up to August and pay half of it, but after August the full amount is due, even if you cannot attend any more matches ie. have to work abroad.
I also think the only exception is if a season ticket holder dies during the season.

*I'm not 100% sure of these T&Cs which is why I typed 'I think'.

 

[jgmcdee]

One answer which would not actually be at all unreasonable, would be to make upgrades freely available at the difference between the £10 and the FULL one off adult price (say £32) = £22

Was it not the case previously that the full difference was charged but the new software doesnt offer that

Yes, and at least as far as I am concerned this is a perfectly reasonable way of doing things.

It doesn't solve the issue where someone pays for a child's season ticket to reserve a seat and just pay for the games where they want to go, though.

 

[alfredmizen]

The issue here surely, is that at the moment, an upgrade is available for the difference between the pro-rata childs' ST match price (say £10) and the pro-rata full ST match price (£24) = £14.

One answer which would not actually be at all unreasonable, would be to make upgrades freely available at the difference between the £10 and the FULL one off adult price (say £32) = £22

That way the club still get the FULL adult price for the seat, the seat is used, the mate gets in for £22, everyone is fairly happy?

I'd suggest that if you were opposed to this suggestion then you are being unreasonable in your expectations. If so, then please justify.

spot on , i thought that was what happened already and couldnt understand both some fans and the clubs attitude to upgraders.

 

[The Birdman]

Yep. And that is clearly completely wrong, and no one will disagree. But it's a different matter completely to the upgrade debate.

Good point it's the ones who are abusing the system. It could have been worst his sons might become Palace fans.

 

[Bozza]

The issue here surely, is that at the moment, an upgrade is available for the difference between the pro-rata childs' ST match price (say £10) and the pro-rata full ST match price (£24) = £14.

One answer which would not actually be at all unreasonable, would be to make upgrades freely available at the difference between the £10 and the FULL one off adult price (say £32) = £22

That way the club still get the FULL adult price for the seat, the seat is used, the mate gets in for £22, everyone is fairly happy?

I'd suggest that if you were opposed to this suggestion then you are being unreasonable in your expectations. If so, then please justify.

I completely agree and made the point on the previous discussions on this very subject.

The ludicrousness comes in that the old ticketing system worked exactly like this.

I've just found a receipt from an upgrade for the Donny game in April 2014. The upgrade charge was £22. (Today that would be £23.50 as an additional £1.50 fee would also be due).

The ticketing system 'upgrade' seemed to bring about two functional downgrades in relation to ticket upgrades:

1. The old system upgraded the smart card for the one-off fixture. The new system requires a paper (incl. print at home) replacement.
2. The old system permitted full match day value for the ticket. The new system doesn't seem to permit this (as I can't believe the club wouldn't be doing this if they could).

 

[jgmcdee]

So we're all agreed: we need to force the club to charge us more for upgrades and everyone will be happy.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I'm largely onside with what the club are doing here and why they are doing it.

However, you've won me over on one point.

Until this season, fans could upgrade as many times as required throughout a season. The club charter stated: "In instances where the Ticket Office agrees an upgrade can be implemented on a concessionary ticket price, the holder will be required to pay the pro rata difference between the concession season ticket price and the adult season ticket price rounded up to the closest £1."

The Ticket Office always agreed to upgrade and there was never any indication that a limit could be imposed. Therefore many fans bought season tickets for this season in the perfectly valid belief that they would have been able to upgrade as they had previously.

To change this mid-season does seem somewhat inequitable, as illustrated by the OP.

By all means make the change. As I say, I understand the rationale. But the timing is wrong.

If they did indeed make the change mid-season, then I imagine the OP may well win his court case.

 

[Bozza]

So we're all agreed: we need to force the club to charge us more for upgrades and everyone will be happy.

I don't think it's quite as clear cut as that because, as you say, it doesn't resolve the 'reserve the seat next to me just in case' folk, although I can't imagine there are too many people who actually do this.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

My argument is that for those who genuinely have child season tickets, and children who cannot make evening games, either the club is happy to allow someone to come in their place for matches the children cannot make or they are not. Given that they have decided to allow genuine upgrades, limiting them to an arbitrary number of occurrences makes no sense.

Dealing with those who buy a child season ticket as a seat reservation system is a different issue, and one that could be dealt with in a different fashion (for example you gain an upgrade credit every time a child actually attends; if a child does not attend matches then you aren't allowed to upgrade).

You're arguing the case exceedingly well.

This is a superb solution imo : Dealing with those who buy a child season ticket as a seat reservation system is a different issue, and one that could be dealt with in a different fashion (for example you gain an upgrade credit every time a child actually attends; if a child does not attend matches then you aren't allowed to upgrade)

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Yes, and at least as far as I am concerned this is a perfectly reasonable way of doing things.

It doesn't solve the issue where someone pays for a child's season ticket to reserve a seat and just pay for the games where they want to go, though.

I don't think it's quite as clear cut as that because, as you say, it doesn't resolve the 'reserve the seat next to me just in case' folk, although I can't imagine there are too many people who actually do this.

If you change the pricing as discussed, then I don't think anyone would do it - there would be little benefit. At the moment somebody (the mate) can have the benefit of reduced ST prices but only go when he wants, so long as the ST holder has the extra child ST ( bare in mind that in some parts of the ground this U10 ST is less than £100). At the suggested 'full' upgrade cost there is no incentive at all to play the system like this.

 

[Goldstone1976]

You're arguing the case exceedingly well.

This is a superb solution imo : Dealing with those who buy a child season ticket as a seat reservation system is a different issue, and one that could be dealt with in a different fashion (for example you gain an upgrade credit every time a child actually attends; if a child does not attend matches then you aren't allowed to upgrade)

i didn't comment on it when first posted, but will do so now.

I agree it's a "superb" solution, but...totally unworkable irl. How would the club know if a child actually attended? Presumably you'd have to have the stewards actually check each time a child ticket pinged to see if it were actually a child. There'd then need to be a feedback loop into the club's computer system where the steward went "yep, it's a kid" necessitating each steward to have a wireless smart device linked to the system. In fact, it's even harder than than that - the steward would need to assess whether the child was under or over the age of 10 (that's a break point in ticket pricing, right?).

Can you imagine the queue lengths as all that was going on. Imagine too the reaction to the club saying "if your child is aged between 8 and 12, bring his/her passport so we can check their age. Oh, do the same if they're aged 15-20, and 18-23. Oh, and between 60 and 70, while we're at it"? The more concessionary pricing bands there are, the more generic a solution you are forced to implement in order to keep the crowds moving.

Or.... have I got this wrong?

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Presumably the club have done some sort of financial survey and made the assessment that they were losing money by allowing seven or more upgrades. After all every time a ticket is upgraded they not only get the additional charge made for the upgrade but also the 'in-stadium' spend that they wouldn't get if the seat remained empty.

I'm not sure how they could have come to this conclusion unless there are a large number of concessionary tickets which were being upgraded for the majority of games which by limiting the number of available upgrades will in future be purchased at the full price by those ticket holders - - - - - or when the 'upgrade rule' was enforced the expectation was that in the near future the demand for tickets would exceed the stadium capacity and tickets not renewed next season could easily be sold to new fans at the full price.

A possible example could be that someone buys a U-10's kids ST for something like £30. The cost of an adult ST for that area being £460 (averaging £20 a game) (*prices may not be accurate and only used for illustrative purposes)

They go to 8 games that season and upgrade every time which is then to the cost of the average adult ST price (i may be wrong here but i think that's what it you pay to when you upgrade) and not to the full single matchday price which would have been £32 a match meaning that they have paid
£30 (U-10 Kids ST)
£160 (8 x £20,average adult ST price)
--------------------------------
£190 for those 8 games

If they brought those 8 games at full adult price they would have paid £256

They save £66 by having a kids ST and exploiting the upgrade system


So if they did 15 games like this they would pay £330 and it should have cost £480 on a match by match basis, meaning they saved £150 - If you can't make that many games over a season, you are basically able to get tickets at the reduced rate that full adult ST holders get but for only the games you want. A lot of people who know that they will miss a fair few games could also then do this and cost the club money, whilst removing value for the remaining ST holders

 

[Bozza]

I tell you what I'm worried about after this thread.

Just how long will the email be that I get?