[News] Can you really make offenders attend sentencing?

[happypig]

I will say it again; take them to court in the same way as they are taken to prison. One way audio solves the issue you raise, as I suggested earlier. The families have only said they want the convicted in attendance whilst they are sentenced. Nothing about hearing what they have to say. As @heavysoul has said, people on this thread are only really interested in having a dig at the Government, so don’t seem interested in actual suggestions. I don’t really have a view either way but as a resident of Merseyside I have listened quite closely to the Mum of Olivia Korbel and think she deserves a bit more empathy than shown by some of the posts on this thread.

If such a system could be made to work then I'm all for it, I just have doubts as to the practicalities.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Perfect illustration why another poster brilliantly dubbed NSC Left Wing Chat and the thread under attack by the Leftwaffe. The opposition want it, the victims want it, Keir Starmer wanted it, so the Tories responded and did it to howls of Tory grandstanding, distraction politics, satisfying the Daily Mail readers etc. Only on NSC.

It is a bit more complicated than that.

 

[ElectricNaz]

Make them face their victims families, If they don't wanna, clearly no remorse so they can shove parole up their arse. Even if they do show up, they can still shove it up their arse. How hard it it to not commit a crime

 

[The Clamp]

Perfect illustration why another poster brilliantly dubbed NSC Left Wing Chat and the thread under attack by the Leftwaffe. The opposition want it, the victims want it, Keir Starmer wanted it, so the Tories responded and did it to howls of Tory grandstanding, distraction politics, satisfying the Daily Mail readers etc. Only on NSC.

For me, and it’s just an opinion as I can see logic to both sides of the argument but I prefer politicians to do the right thing, not the popular thing.

 

[Justice]

I was more concerned to read recently 7 out of 10 officers in the Met haven't made a proper arrest in the last 12 months.

This country is truly going to rat shit before our eyes.

To busy raping women

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Perfect illustration why another poster brilliantly dubbed NSC Left Wing Chat and the thread under attack by the Leftwaffe. The opposition want it, the victims want it, Keir Starmer wanted it, so the Tories responded and did it to howls of Tory grandstanding, distraction politics, satisfying the Daily Mail readers etc. Only on NSC.

Yup, every time a thread can be hijacked it will be. I only clicked on this one because of the Liverpool angle. I wish I hadn’t bothered.

 

[Flagship]

Thankfully I don't know anyone who has been murdered but I can empathise with families of victims. It is abhorrent that some contributors on here - the usual naysayers - have turned it into an anti-government diatribe again. It is the victims of crime and their loved ones who matter, so if they feel the need for closure, by having the guilty criminal in court to hear their sentence, then despite whatever government is in office, they should have their wish.

Everything else has been said. I'd bring back hanging.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

It was this that I was referring to ;

It was inhumane," said Hannah Reid. "It's really horrific the way that victims are treated specifically in sexual assault cases. You are not really told your rights. You're told the rights of the accused.
"He had guidance and support the entire length of the process, and we were left completely in the dark, having no idea what to expect."
Hannah McLaughlan added: "There needs to be stricter guidelines on what defence lawyers can say to a victim giving evidence because you aren't treated like a human.
"You're just treated like a bit of evidence and it's disgusting. It's so re-traumatising the things that they get away with saying to you.
"It became like an emotional combat between myself and the defence lawyer. It was relentless and and I didn't think he was ever going to give in."

That’s no way to deal with traumatized victims. At the very least defence lawyers need training in how to speak to people giving evidence in such cases.

While I sympathise over the treatment of victims, the defence lawyer has a job to do! You may be wanting to tie one hand behind their back.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Yup, every time a thread can be hijacked it will be. I only clicked on this one because of the Liverpool angle. I wish I hadn’t bothered.

That’s because you’re looking at it from an emotional angle, which is understandable. That’s why I pointed out the professionals in this thread who have actually done the job in court.
As for the political area, I disagree with Sunak and with Starmer on this.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

While I sympathise over the treatment of victims, the defence lawyer has a job to do! You may be wanting to tie one hand behind their back.

I think there's different ways of asking the same question. And I think sometimes the defence like to 'perform'. I was on a jury for a rape case and the defence questioned the woman in quite a sympathetic way ... whereas some of the cases I've read about last couple of days have sounded absolutely shocking.

 

[A1X]

Politics was dragged into it in the OP ... and continued in #2 ... #3

Post #1 references it as being gesture politics, but doesn’t narrow that down by party

 

[Deleted member 37369]

Post #1 references it as being gesture politics, but doesn’t narrow that down by party

The comment was made based on the linked story about the governments plans.

You said, "Why are you so desperate to drag politics into it?"

I merely said that politics had been dragged into it from the opening post. I didn't say anything about one party or another

 

[Guinness Boy]

That’s because you’re looking at it from an emotional angle, which is understandable. That’s why I pointed out the professionals in this thread who have actually done the job in court.
As for the political area, I disagree with Sunak and with Starmer on this.

Only about the fourth time that point’s been made….

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Only about the fourth time that point’s been made….

There's none so blind as those who will not see.

 

[JamesAndTheGiantHead]

 

[Deleted member 37369]

That’s because you’re looking at it from an emotional angle, which is understandable. That’s why I pointed out the professionals in this thread who have actually done the job in court.
As for the political area, I disagree with Sunak and with Starmer on this.

And of course ... 'professionals' are never wrong!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

And of course ... 'professionals' are never wrong!

Strange comment. They're human like the rest of us.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

Strange comment. They're human like the rest of us.

Not strange at all. Your comment about them being human like the rest of us sounds strange in this context!

You're suggesting that 2 'professionals' have given their view on here and that we should all just accept what they say. I'm sure there will be other 'professionals' within the CJS with a different view.

I think the whole subject needs to be properly debated from all sides - with all views considered (especially the victims). All options considered ... nothing off the table.

 

[Bozza]

There was a Scottish KC who specialises in defence on 5Live this morning and his opinion is that it would be completely unworkable for the reasons I think have already been outlined.

He also said that in his 40 years of work, he hasn't had one defendant who refused to attend sentencing. It clearly happens, as we know from the recent high-profile example, but it does seem to be a relatively rare occurrence.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

That’s because you’re looking at it from an emotional angle, which is understandable. That’s why I pointed out the professionals in this thread who have actually done the job in court.
As for the political area, I disagree with Sunak and with Starmer on this.

While I sympathise over the treatment of victims, the defence lawyer has a job to do! You may be wanting to tie one hand behind their back.

I am also a professional and I am trained to do my job with empathy but achieving the correct outcome. I also have experience of SEN tribunals which just like our court system seems overrun with deference to those that work there and very little empathy for those that have the misfortune to have to appear in them. I don’t want to tie one hand behind their backs but would like them to understand the impact of language and trauma. That is not an emotional reaction. It is one that is natural in a lot of professions but seems an alien concept in the legal profession. It is difficult to take seriously an argument that says whatever the lawyers think must be true.