[News] Can you really make offenders attend sentencing?

[portlock seagull]

As I said, I prefer to listen to the people who have done the job rather than newspapers or recent cases.
Within this thread you have a retired magistrate and an experienced copper. I worked with the CPS before retirement.
It is grandstanding by the politicians who don't have to make it work.

This.

 

[Deleted member 37369]

What, the leader of the opposition making political capital out of something?

Well precisely ...

The government were accused of same on here ... so I was just attempting to provide balance. They're all the same ...

 

[Cheshire Cat]

 

[Super Steve Earle]

Perfect illustration why another poster brilliantly dubbed NSC Left Wing Chat and the thread under attack by the Leftwaffe. The opposition want it, the victims want it, Keir Starmer wanted it, so the Tories responded and did it to howls of Tory grandstanding, distraction politics, satisfying the Daily Mail readers etc. Only on NSC.

 

[vegster]

its a pointless move. What if the guilty party just wants to shout down the sentencing, abuse the court officials, abuse the families involved or make a political statement by shouting and swearing ?

Hilarious to hear Sunak accuse people of cowardice for not attending sentencing .....while not declaring a General Election despite what the country has been put through by his party !

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Perfect illustration why another poster brilliantly dubbed NSC Left Wing Chat and the thread under attack by the Leftwaffe. The opposition want it, the victims want it, Keir Starmer wanted it, so the Tories responded and did it to howls of Tory grandstanding, distraction politics, satisfying the Daily Mail readers etc. Only on NSC.

So exactly how do you intend to physically get them into the court room and get them to listen to the sentence if they don't want to.

Drag them in kicking and screaming, and then insert a gag on their mouth?

 

[Deleted member 37369]

Perfect illustration why another poster brilliantly dubbed NSC Left Wing Chat and the thread under attack by the Leftwaffe. The opposition want it, the victims want it, Keir Starmer wanted it, so the Tories responded and did it to howls of Tory grandstanding, distraction politics, satisfying the Daily Mail readers etc. Only on NSC.

Yep

 

[Deleted member 37369]

Perfect illustration why another poster brilliantly dubbed NSC Left Wing Chat and the thread under attack by the Leftwaffe. The opposition want it, the victims want it, Keir Starmer wanted it, so the Tories responded and did it to howls of Tory grandstanding, distraction politics, satisfying the Daily Mail readers etc. Only on NSC.

So exactly how do you intend to physically get them into the court room and get them to listen to the sentence if they don't want to.

Drag them in kicking and screaming, and then insert a gag on their mouth?

I think you've missed the point of SSE's post!

 

[Deleted member 37369]

its a pointless move. What if the guilty party just wants to shout down the sentencing, abuse the court officials, abuse the families involved or make a political statement by shouting and swearing ?

Hilarious to hear Sunak accuse people of cowardice for not attending sentencing .....while not declaring a General Election despite what the country has been put through by his party !

Surely if they wanted to do those things they might just attend anyway?

 

[Super Steve Earle]

Soun

So exactly how do you intend to physically get them into the court room and get them to listen to the sentence if they don't want to.

Drag them in kicking and screaming, and then insert a gag on their mouth?

Sounds like a plan... but that wasn't my point.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Perfect illustration why another poster brilliantly dubbed NSC Left Wing Chat and the thread under attack by the Leftwaffe. The opposition want it, the victims want it, Keir Starmer wanted it, so the Tories responded and did it to howls of Tory grandstanding, distraction politics, satisfying the Daily Mail readers etc. Only on NSC.

And how did you get there exactly?

The opposition and government both want it because it'll get them a few votes from the hard of thinking. But it is incumbent on the government to be making good, workable legislation and not wasting money on something that cannot be realistically implemented beyond a gesture. Any sensible government would be pointing out why this can't be done to Starmer instead of taking his policy and selling it to Sun readers like some five dollar crack whore,

The thread is full of people including two who have served in the court system, saying it's not possible, Because it isn't. Unless you're in favour of state sanctioned violence. Left and right has nothing to do with it. You've said it's the left's proposal

 

[happypig]

Why do people feel so strongly about this? It's such a minor policy change, its just topical at the moment.

Is it just any excuse to say "tories bad, grrrrrrr"?

Perfect illustration why another poster brilliantly dubbed NSC Left Wing Chat and the thread under attack by the Leftwaffe. The opposition want it, the victims want it, Keir Starmer wanted it, so the Tories responded and did it to howls of Tory grandstanding, distraction politics, satisfying the Daily Mail readers etc. Only on NSC.

I make no secret of my left-wing views but this has nothing to do with them, this is about my experience as a court user having sat on dozens of trials and having sentenced people to imprisonment myself.
There's no end of stuff to beat the Tories with. This is an unworkable, populist idea irrespective of where you stand on the political spectrum.

For those who think they should be forced to attend, how would you deal with a defendant who says something like "when I get in the dock I'm going to laugh about the crimes I committed and tell the victims I'm glad I did it and I'd do it again" ?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Perfect illustration why another poster brilliantly dubbed NSC Left Wing Chat and the thread under attack by the Leftwaffe. The opposition want it, the victims want it, Keir Starmer wanted it, so the Tories responded and did it to howls of Tory grandstanding, distraction politics, satisfying the Daily Mail readers etc. Only on NSC.

10/10 for silly clichés

 

[A1X]

Perfect illustration why another poster brilliantly dubbed NSC Left Wing Chat and the thread under attack by the Leftwaffe. The opposition want it, the victims want it, Keir Starmer wanted it, so the Tories responded and did it to howls of Tory grandstanding, distraction politics, satisfying the Daily Mail readers etc. Only on NSC.

Bad ideas are bad ideas regardless of who implements them. This would be just as bad an idea if a Labour government were doing it.

Why are you so desperate to drag politics into it?

 

[Deleted member 37369]

Bad ideas are bad ideas regardless of who implements them. This would be just as bad an idea if a Labour government were doing it.

Why are you so desperate to drag politics into it?

Politics was dragged into it in the OP ... and continued in #2 ... #3

 

[The Rivet]

You didn't have so many refusing to hear their sentence before the introduction of impact statements.

 

[studio150]

Didn't Sunak first say he was going to bring this in last July when he was challenging Truss for the Leadership, over a year later and it's again raised as a priority due the headlines from the Nurse case.

I'm sure that the extra 2 years will make all those facing whole life tariffs decide to attend and hear their sentence rather than staying in their cell.

Like most Tory policies on crime, is governed by headlines and is just an attempt to gain a few more votes from their base.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

A barrister talking about it on Channel 4 News just now - Kate Bex KC. Basically saying there is concern that the guilty person would just treat it as an opportunity to upset/anger people more - laugh, “I’d do it again” etc etc. and she was talking from long experience of the Criminal Justice System. Then a Senior Prison Officer saying similar things.

the prisoners have no reason or incentive to act with respect. It could quite easily make the experience for the victims far worse, particularly if the prisoner is forced to be there. Personally I think it’s daft.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I make no secret of my left-wing views but this has nothing to do with them, this is about my experience as a court user having sat on dozens of trials and having sentenced people to imprisonment myself.
There's no end of stuff to beat the Tories with. This is an unworkable, populist idea irrespective of where you stand on the political spectrum.

For those who think they should be forced to attend, how would you deal with a defendant who says something like "when I get in the dock I'm going to laugh about the crimes I committed and tell the victims I'm glad I did it and I'd do it again" ?

I will say it again; take them to court in the same way as they are taken to prison. One way audio solves the issue you raise, as I suggested earlier. The families have only said they want the convicted in attendance whilst they are sentenced. Nothing about hearing what they have to say. As @heavysoul has said, people on this thread are only really interested in having a dig at the Government, so don’t seem interested in actual suggestions. I don’t really have a view either way but as a resident of Merseyside I have listened quite closely to the Mum of Olivia Korbel and think she deserves a bit more empathy than shown by some of the posts on this thread.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You didn't have so many refusing to hear their sentence before the introduction of impact statements.

Didn’t you? When was that?