Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 72,348
Democracy gave us Thatcher's Poll Tax. Rioting got rid of it. And her.
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Can Labour square the circle?
- Thread starter Surf's Up
- Start date
Democracy gave us Thatcher's Poll Tax. Rioting got rid of it. And her.
- Thread starter
- #22
Interesting statement by Andy Turnham yesterday to the effect that McCluskey was wrong to call for a move to the left and Mandelson was wrong to call for a return to New Labour. He then went on to state: "I am the change candidate because we have got to reach out to those voters who had doubts about us on immigration and on economic competence. If we are going to rebuild that trust we need to have an honest assessment of the record of the last Labour government on the economy". Difficult to see how he can do those things without moving to the right.
With hindsight, many who were originally against the poll tax would now say it was a good idea, just badly implemented.
Really?
Eh? It was a very bad idea, very badly implemented. Who are these people you mention?
Just read this article from Blue Labour. It is not an article ripping into Labour, i feel it is an article that sums up "some" of the reasons that Labour were let's just say, not attracting the votes they needed, or perhaps not listening.
I suppose this article strikes a chord with me because (after voting Labour in 1997) i have since stated that Labour has portrayed itself as fairly anti English, and ignoring the working man.
Your opinions will probably differ though.
Labour and the English Question
"There is no easy way of saying it, but after Election 2015 Labour faces an existential crisis the like of which has not been seen in the modern era. The direction and fundamental purpose of our party is under threat and action is needed if we are to avoid falling into obscurity."
http://www.bluelabour.org/2015/05/19/labour-and-the-english-question/
I suppose this article strikes a chord with me because (after voting Labour in 1997) i have since stated that Labour has portrayed itself as fairly anti English, and ignoring the working man.
Your opinions will probably differ though.
Labour and the English Question
"There is no easy way of saying it, but after Election 2015 Labour faces an existential crisis the like of which has not been seen in the modern era. The direction and fundamental purpose of our party is under threat and action is needed if we are to avoid falling into obscurity."
http://www.bluelabour.org/2015/05/19/labour-and-the-english-question/
Hampster Gull
Well-known member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,465
Ergo remove democracy...
Hampster Gull
Well-known member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,465
Len and Socialism is the answer for Labour, they just don't realise it yet, or even understand the question 
yes we are told from the right what labour needs
pro business (do not raise minimum pay,keep zero hour contracts,
keep European wide labour market,keep non dom tax status)
pro aspiration( do not tax wealthy people more but do not mention
that people on average pay will not be able to buy a house)
show economic competence -balance the books despite government
sector deficits being private sector surpluses and inflation being negative.
If labour could deliver this then mr Murdoch may just support them in the future.
I am not self deluded .I realise people are turned off by "left wing" but why
have a Labour Party that adopts Tory policies ?
The corruption of wealth and power is pervasive.It becomes internalized by
leaders of "progressive parties" who seek power.It becomes internalized by
voters who are trying to keep them and their families afloat in a complex
and chaotic reality.
The "first " world marches blindly downward in the race to the bottom.Working
people squandering the advances the baby boomers secured in the post war
settlement for the mistaken belief that it is the elite that grows the pie and will
sweep some crumbs their way if only they get with the program.
Well it doesn't get my vote.
pro business (do not raise minimum pay,keep zero hour contracts,
keep European wide labour market,keep non dom tax status)
pro aspiration( do not tax wealthy people more but do not mention
that people on average pay will not be able to buy a house)
show economic competence -balance the books despite government
sector deficits being private sector surpluses and inflation being negative.
If labour could deliver this then mr Murdoch may just support them in the future.
I am not self deluded .I realise people are turned off by "left wing" but why
have a Labour Party that adopts Tory policies ?
The corruption of wealth and power is pervasive.It becomes internalized by
leaders of "progressive parties" who seek power.It becomes internalized by
voters who are trying to keep them and their families afloat in a complex
and chaotic reality.
The "first " world marches blindly downward in the race to the bottom.Working
people squandering the advances the baby boomers secured in the post war
settlement for the mistaken belief that it is the elite that grows the pie and will
sweep some crumbs their way if only they get with the program.
Well it doesn't get my vote.
Would love one of I the intellectuals on here to define "British working class" for me?
Goldstone Rapper
Rediffusion PlayerofYear
It's not a case of Labour shifting to the left or shifting to the right, but being an effective opposition.
1) They failed to nail the lie that public spending led to the economic crisis. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-borrowing-got-us-into-this-mess-8601390.html because they were scared of being seen as anti-business.
2) They failed to hammer home that national debt has risen under the Conservatives http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gen...he-national-debt-monster-in-three-charts.html and that the Tories broke their promise of clearing the deficit by 2015/16.
3) They failed to emphasise that in an economic downturn, public spending should go up, not down, to get the economy up and running again.
1) They failed to nail the lie that public spending led to the economic crisis. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-borrowing-got-us-into-this-mess-8601390.html because they were scared of being seen as anti-business.
2) They failed to hammer home that national debt has risen under the Conservatives http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gen...he-national-debt-monster-in-three-charts.html and that the Tories broke their promise of clearing the deficit by 2015/16.
3) They failed to emphasise that in an economic downturn, public spending should go up, not down, to get the economy up and running again.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,019
now that is a bloody good way of putting it, and it highlights just how entrenched ideas of left/right distort and and constrain our politics.
however on these points, they offer can offer no opposition because 1) this is a straw man myth, the argument is that their spending left us unable to respond economical, 2) the debt rose because of their spending commitments, to contest this they would have to promise to cut more, 3) that's one economic theory, which also holds that you save in boom years, which they failed to do. which leads to 1) and as a consequence 2).