Calais

[crookie]

I wonder why they havent opened Boulogne or Dunkirk and diverted some of the ferries especially for cargo vehicles.

Lorries used to go Portsmouth to Caen and Le Havre even 2 a day of the ferries from Dover would ease the problems.

Dealing with the symptom not the cause, Calais is the quickest and the base for the Chunnel. Shall we abandon them both ?

 

[crookie]

Dealing with the symptom not the cause, Calais is the quickest and the base for the Chunnel. Shall we abandon them both ?

In fact, lets just close the tunnel for 6 months. We'd be better off paying hundreds of millions to Eurotunnel in compensation than having to fork out several times that in benefits/housing for all those who would get in otherwise. I consider myself a liberal but his just can't go on

 

[BadFish]

Its almost as if you are implying the French have lost control/not interested

Where are the English are........?

 

[BadFish]

One of the migrants was interviewed in Calais about why he wanted to get to Britain. He said because asylum was easier to get here.. He was a Syrian refugee & a qualified dentist.

He was obviously misinformed then.

 

[BadFish]

Just let them in. Problem solved.

Don't just let them in process them and deal with them rather than ignoring the problem and hoping it goes away.

 

[BadFish]

the gendarme are quite capable of restoring order if the fancy takes them, not shy of bringing out the happy sticks. trouble is, they dont want to because if they do these migrant enter their system and they have to deal with them. there's no feasable/practical/legal solution to this situation unless the French round them all up to imprison them.

There really is a feasible/practical and legal solution: The British and French governments gat together and take some shared responsibility and process them.

 

[pastafarian]

One of the migrants was interviewed in Calais about why he wanted to get to Britain. He said because asylum was easier to get here.. He was a Syrian refugee & a qualified dentist.

He was obviously misinformed then.

he wasnt misinformed though

France 2014

total asylum decisions
37,085
given refugee status
4245
given protection
1580
humanitarian reasons
0
rejected asylum
31260 84.29%

Uk 2014

total asylum decisions
12750
given refugee status
2645
given protection
85
humanitarian reasons
1285
rejected asylum
8735 68,5%

It is therefore statistically a better bet to apply in the UK compared to France

(these are final processed decisions on asylum requests and not the amount of people claiming)

There really is a feasible/practical and legal solution: The British and French governments gat together and take some shared responsibility and process them.

I agree they should be processed,The EU has its own rules on this,processing in the first country they arrive in.This seems to now be out the window and ignored. Why is this being ignored?

In 2014
There were 132,405 processed decisions made on Asylum requests throughout the EU.
109,110 were rejected for asylum

The cynic in me says this is because most were economic migrants and not genuine asylum seekers and that some countries would rather this expensive process was passed on to their neighbours rather than deal with it themselves according to signed treaties.

Maybe im just being too cynical about the EU

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statis...s,_2014_(number,_rounded_figures)_YB15_IV.png

 

[BadFish]

he wasnt misinformed though

France 2014

total asylum decisions
37,085
given refugee status
4245
given protection
1580
humanitarian reasons
0
rejected asylum
31260 84.29%

Uk 2014

total asylum decisions
12750
given refugee status
2645
given protection
85
humanitarian reasons
1285
rejected asylum
8735 68,5%

It is therefore statistically a better bet to apply in the UK compared to France

(these are final processed decisions on asylum requests and not the amount of people claiming)

Yes i see what you are saying here, although your statistics also show that more people get asylum in France that the UK so it depends on your use of statistics. To be honest I didn't read the post as comparing UK and France (my mistake i admit, shouldn't be posting before my first cup of tea of the day ).

[

I agree they should be processed,The EU has its own rules on this,processing in the first country they arrive in.This seems to now be out the window and ignored. Why is this being ignored?

I am not sure of the answer here but my guess is that those countries around the Med who are baring the brunt of the problem at the moment felt the rule was not creating an equitable spread of asylum seekers across countries. I am sure that a countries perception on this would be markedly different depending on if it was one of the first countries to be passed through or not. Your cynicism could possible be compared to a (say) Italians who might suggest that tthe rule we are discussing was put in place because certain countries would rather their neighbours dealt with the situation before it was passed on to them.

In 2014
There were 132,405 processed decisions made on Asylum requests throughout the EU.
109,110 were rejected for asylum

The cynic in me says this is because most were economic migrants and not genuine asylum seekers and that some countries would rather this expensive process was passed on to their neighbours rather than deal with it themselves according to signed treaties.

Maybe im just being too cynical about the EU

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statis...s,_2014_(number,_rounded_figures)_YB15_IV.png

[/B][/QUOTE]

My point about this really isn't about if they are economic migrants or Refugees it is more about tackling the problem head on and processing them to find out. This way at least you know what you are dealing with and you can begin to deal with the problem rather than just letting it fester.

If they are refugees then your get them through the system to integrate them. If they are economic migrants then you deport them.

 

[pastafarian]

My point about this really isn't about if they are economic migrants or Refugees it is more about tackling the problem head on and processing them to find out. This way at least you know what you are dealing with and you can begin to deal with the problem rather than just letting it fester.

If they are refugees then your get them through the system to integrate them. If they are economic migrants then you deport them.

i agree 100%
The people at Calais should be processed to determine between those seeking genuine Asylum and those that are economic migrants.
Those that are genuine can be integrated and the others i agree can be deported(to a place and situation for a different discussion with help from the international community)
Now can you please write to France and tell them this.The UK has no legal obligation to process the people at Calais.The only country allowing this situation to fester is France,tell France to tell the migrants they have a choice ...apply for asylum or be deported.

 

[BadFish]

i agree 100%
The people at Calais should be processed to determine between those seeking genuine Asylum and those that are economic migrants.
Those that are genuine can be integrated and the others i agree can be deported(to a place and situation for a different discussion with help from the international community)
Now can you please write to France and tell them this.The UK has no legal obligation to process the people at Calais.The only country allowing this situation to fester is France,tell France to tell the migrants they have a choice ...apply for asylum or be deported.

Trouble is, if they haven't applied to asylum then the French have no legal obligation to do anything either do they? What both governments have, is an obligation to deal with a problem on their borders. I don't see why they can't work together to get this dealt with. Surely the numbers at Calais are a drop in the ocean compared to the work some other countries are doing (Australia excepted of course we are just ****ed).

One thing's for sure if nobody does anything then the problem ain't going away and will probably just get worse.

 

[Juan Albion]

I imagine a large screen TV showing a series of webcams from Croydon would make most of them turn around and go back to Paris.

 

[pastafarian]

Trouble is, if they haven't applied to asylum then the French have no legal obligation to do anything either do they?

Yes they do.....The French have an obligation to stop everyone trespassing on private property,they have an obligation to protect hauliers to carry out their legitimate business free from intimidation.They have an obligation to protect the particular port exit and everyone who uses it,This obligation on French territory is not a problem for the Dutch,The Italians,The Germans or the British it is a problem for the French Authorities.

Lets not forget these people in Calais are in France ILLEGALLY.......the French have every right to disperse the camp,they simply dont want to.....much better they hope they migrants come across and become the problem of the UK.

The French are the slackers here fish and not the UK

 

[Stat Brother]

On 5 Live yesterday Tony Livesy asked a French MP:-

"Doesn't France have to look at itself and ask why people are prepared to die just to leave"?

 

[GingerBeerMan]

In fact, lets just close the tunnel for 6 months. We'd be better off paying hundreds of millions to Eurotunnel in compensation than having to fork out several times that in benefits/housing for all those who would get in otherwise. I consider myself a liberal but his just can't go on

You really think we give out benefits and houses to anyone that manages to get into the country? You're seriously misinformed.

 

[BadFish]

Yes they do.....The French have an obligation to stop everyone trespassing on private property,they have an obligation to protect hauliers to carry out their legitimate business free from intimidation.They have an obligation to protect the particular port exit and everyone who uses it,This obligation on French territory is not a problem for the Dutch,The Italians,The Germans or the British it is a problem for the French Authorities.

Lets not forget these people in Calais are in France ILLEGALLY.......the French have every right to disperse the camp,they simply dont want to.....much better they hope they migrants come across and become the problem of the UK.

The French are the slackers here fish and not the UK

I would agree that the French have those obligation but we were specifically talking about a 'legal' obligation to process those asylum seekers in France even though they haven't claimed asylum. I don't know the answer to this but i am guessing this isn't the case.

Anyway I found this answer to your earlier question

Found this answer to yourThe Dublin Convention sets out criteria for allocating responsibility for processing asylum claims, principally allocating responsibility to the state responsible for the asylum seeker’s entry to the EU, albeit with some allowance for family unity.

However, it is almost impossible for many asylum seekers to reach Europe legally and most can only do so without prior authorisation. This means that most asylum seekers arriving in the EU will do so by land or sea, meaning the system potentially overburdens the member states at the EU’s periphery.

The Dublin System means, in essence, that the UK’s geographical situation – buffered from the rest of the world by continental Europe and the Atlantic Ocean - would lead to it only receiving asylum seekers who managed to enter the UK by plane or after a sea journey.

http://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u...clandestine-migration-uk-concerns-and-context

The point is that clearly the French are not going to do anything about this because the asylum seekers are heading towards England (who they think are too soft on them) and the English won't do anything because the problem is in France. you have describe it as a problem for the French authorities and that they hope that it becomes a problem for the UK. It seems to me that it is already a problem for both the UK and France so surely it stands to reason that the UK and France get together and solve it.

Clearly we are not going to agree on this so I will leave it there.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I would agree that the French have those obligation but we were specifically talking about a 'legal' obligation to process those asylum seekers in France even though they haven't claimed asylum. I don't know the answer to this but i am guessing this isn't the case.

Anyway I found this answer to your earlier question

Found this answer to yourThe Dublin Convention sets out criteria for allocating responsibility for processing asylum claims, principally allocating responsibility to the state responsible for the asylum seeker’s entry to the EU, albeit with some allowance for family unity.

However, it is almost impossible for many asylum seekers to reach Europe legally and most can only do so without prior authorisation. This means that most asylum seekers arriving in the EU will do so by land or sea, meaning the system potentially overburdens the member states at the EU’s periphery.

The Dublin System means, in essence, that the UK’s geographical situation – buffered from the rest of the world by continental Europe and the Atlantic Ocean - would lead to it only receiving asylum seekers who managed to enter the UK by plane or after a sea journey.

http://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u...clandestine-migration-uk-concerns-and-context

The point is that clearly the French are not going to do anything about this because the asylum seekers are heading towards England (who they think are too soft on them) and the English won't do anything because the problem is in France. you have describe it as a problem for the French authorities and that they hope that it becomes a problem for the UK. It seems to me that it is already a problem for both the UK and France so surely it stands to reason that the UK and France get together and solve it.

Clearly we are not going to agree on this so I will leave it there.

You keep using the phrase 'asylum seekers' - these people are not that. If they were then why don't they just apply for asylum in the first EU country they get to and then move to the UK perfectly legally ? No most these people are economic migrants who have no intention of seeking asylum in the UK, instead, if they get in, they will just vanish and become part of the black labour market. That same market that gets raided week after week by the authorities in restaurants across the land.

 

[BadFish]

You keep using the phrase 'asylum seekers' - these people are not that. If they were then why don't they just apply for asylum in the first EU country they get to and then move to the UK perfectly legally ? No most these people are economic migrants who have no intention of seeking asylum in the UK, instead, if they get in, they will just vanish and become part of the black labour market. That same market that gets raided week after week by the authorities in restaurants across the land.

I say it because that is exactly what they are, until they are processed you have not idea if they are genuine refugees or economic migrants.

 

[WATFORD zero]

No most these people are economic migrants who have no intention of seeking asylum in the UK, instead, if they get in, they will just vanish and become part of the black labour market. That same market that gets raided week after week by the authorities in restaurants across the land.

No, you must be wrong.

I've seen on here many times that the first thing these economic migrants do after risking their lives travelling halfway round the world trying to keep under the radar of various authorities, is to declare themselves to the British Government so they can get their free housing and benefits

By the way, what does economic migrants mean ?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It seems to have escalated recently. I was there at the beginning of June.

That was my whole point. I saw the news here on the same day that we travelled back, & the reports were nothing like our actual experience.
It made me wonder just how selective the reports have been.

 

[wellquickwoody]

One of the migrants was interviewed in Calais about why he wanted to get to Britain. He said because asylum was easier to get here.. He was a Syrian refugee & a qualified dentist.

It seems many of those in Calais are less 'desperate' and more 'determined', the image of the toddler atop the 15ft fence demonstrating this! A large number of these migrants have arrived in Greece and Libya via boats from North Africa, that costs a large chunk of money even in our terms. Those that have travelled that way are some of the people most needed by their own countries to build and improve their own society and infrastructure as they are the qualified and focused part of the populations. You don't see many late middle age migrants trying to break into Britain!

Very difficult to see what the solution is, maybe stopping the boats leaving the north African coast would be a start?