Byron Burger - illegal workers

[looney]

Quite simply because the concept of one human having more right to be in one place than another makes no sense at even a basic level.

Its called Private Property or property rights, its the foundation of civilisation. It makes no sense to you because you have no sense.

 

[BadFish]

Its how i was brought up, you look after your OWN first , then think about others , obviously not how you were brought up , fair enough, but you'll probably get a rude awakening one day , when your ''everyone is my brother'' attitude is thrown back in your face and your illusions are shattered.

This is an interesting point because before you can worry about your OWN before others you have to define who your own are. This definition could be anything from members or your immediate family, extended family, people in your street, suburb, town, etc etc.

How exactly do you define your OWN?

 

[spence]

Its called Private Property or property rights, its the foundation of civilisation. It makes no sense to you because you have no sense.

Made me chuckle

 

[The Clamp]

Total non story for either side of the debate. This kind of thing happens every single day somewhere.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Total non story for either side of the debate. This kind of thing happens every single day somewhere.

Yeah, it does seem to me a bit - UK border agency find illegal workers in London - shocker.

 

[The Clamp]

Its called Private Property or property rights, its the foundation of civilisation. It makes no sense to you because you have no sense.

I do get what you are saying but point of fact: Travel, immigration, exploration, invasion, foreign trade are the foundations of our civilisation. It's why it will never be halted no matter how many referendums we hold, it's been happening for thousands of years and will continue to do so despite borders, ID cards, votes, or prisons.

 

[sir albion]

How far can an employer go? If they followed the right checks and were given fake ID, what can they do?

Many companies have machines at the company that tell them if they're illegal or not....one company boss near Croydon says of all the 1000's that apply 80% were illegal

The issues won't be resolved because we don't have the resources to deal with or deport these people.I remember months ago watching a programme where they had 10 illegals working in a Chinese restaurant and due to staff shortages they let them all go.

 

[Hastings gull]

I do get what you are saying but point of fact: Travel, immigration, exploration, invasion, foreign trade are the foundations of our civilisation. It's why it will never be halted no matter how many referendums we hold, it's been happening for thousands of years and will continue to do so despite borders, ID cards, votes, or prisons.

I am not quite sure how your "point of fact" is supposed to contribute to the debate about one's own property. You were responding to someone who quite rightly pointed out that private property is precisely that, and one's right to this, is the cornerstone of civilisation. Travel etc are also vital ingredients and won't be halted -no one disputes that, but how is this relevant and what has it got to do with one's right to private property.
As an aside, is invasion a foundation of our civilisation?

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

I do get what you are saying but point of fact: Travel, immigration, exploration, invasion, foreign trade are the foundations of our civilisation. It's why it will never be halted no matter how many referendums we hold, it's been happening for thousands of years and will continue to do so despite borders, ID cards, votes, or prisons.

Of course,don't forget to factor in war,oppression,civil unrest too..take the rough with the smooth.

 

[The Clamp]

Of course,don't forget to factor in war,oppression,civil unrest too..take the rough with the smooth.

Quite right

 

[The Clamp]

I am not quite sure how your "point of fact" is supposed to contribute to the debate about one's own property. You were responding to someone who quite rightly pointed out that private property is precisely that, and one's right to this, is the cornerstone of civilisation. Travel etc are also vital ingredients and won't be halted -no one disputes that, but how is this relevant and what has it got to do with one's right to private property.
As an aside, is invasion a foundation of our civilisation?

You clearly don't understand what a point of fact is. A point of fact is an aside to the main argument, made in order to enlighten others or clarify a fact. It is not meant as a direct contribution to a debate, or as a counterpoint or an argument.


I would have thought a point about people travelling and migrating was exceptionally relevant to a thread concerning migrants though. No?
The point of migration, travel etc is a valid one, as is alfredmizen and your points about private property. But it's the bigger picture here. People of our standing in life can say private property is part of our life. Our ancestors did all our travelling and migration in order for future generations (us) to be able to claim property as private and rightly so. Today's migrants are the same just not as far down the line.

It's fine to say I was raised to look after my own. That's all these people are doing too. They are just further back in the queue. It's not really on get to where we want to be, because of past generation's migration and hard work and risk and then turn round and close the door because you are now where you want to be.

Interesting point of fact: you'd only have to go back about 2000 years to find close common ancestors between yourself and these people. So they are pretty much "your own" ! Interesting!

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Quite right

along with leave the EU referendum results too..

 

[The Clamp]

along with leave the EU referendum results too..

All part of the world's rich history and evolution.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

All part of the world's rich history and evolution.

I agree,perhaps we could do a new trade deal with China and India,allow freedom of movement with them and allow 10 million Asians per year into the UK,be great for GDP,in return we could walk the Great Wall and see the Ganges..

 

[The Clamp]

I agree,perhaps we could do a new trade deal with China and India,allow freedom of movement with them and allow 10 million Asians per year into the UK,be great for GDP,in return we could walk the Great Wall and see the Ganges..

They pretty much did in the 1800's. London's gambling and black market trade was built on their coming to England. They revolutionised our restaurant trade in the 50's too. Good folks.

 

[Blackadder]

Hello, anybody there? Hello? Hello, anyone home? You seemed to have a point to make about migration? Shame, seems to have left the building.

No not all all. I have a life outside NSC, so don't read all posts.

I was just curious about your comment regarding letting too many migrants in and your location of Melbourne as soon as possible, If you are going there for a holiday, I have the wrong end of the stick. No biggy.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

They pretty much did in the 1800's.

true..... although the UK was in a better position then too,even had an Empire....Pound was stronger.

 

[Hastings gull]

You clearly don't understand what a point of fact is. A point of fact is an aside to the main argument, made in order to enlighten others or clarify a fact. It is not meant as a direct contribution to a debate, or as a counterpoint or an argument.

The point of migration, travel etc is a valid one, as is alfredmizen and your points about private property. But it's the bigger picture here. People of our standing in life can say private property is part of our life. Our ancestors did all our travelling and migration in order for future generations (us) to be able to claim property as private and rightly so. Today's migrants are the same just not as far down the line.

It's fine to say I was raised to look after my own. That's all these people are doing too. They are just further back in the queue. It's not really on get to where we want to be, because of past generation's migration and hard work and risk and then turn round and close the door because you are now where you want to be.
Interesting point of fact: you'd only have to go back about 2000 years to find close common ancestors between yourself and these people. So they are pretty much "your own" ! Interesting!

OK, I accept your point about a point of fact and that you were trying to enlighten everyone . . .But your middle para; what are you trying to say? Is this part of the enlightenment for the reader?! Yes, we no doubt are the ancestral products of past generations and migrants, and the current migrants are also trying to look after their own, by assuming that a better life in Europe exists. But what is your point? Whilst I am sure that this is not what you mean,it sounds as if you are trying to say that they have every right to eg my private property

 

[The Clamp]

true..... although the UK was in a better position then too,even had an Empire....Pound was stronger.

Brings a tear to the eye. Never mind, in about two years we will basically be a floating 1950's theme park.

 

[The Clamp]

OK, I accept your point about a point of fact and that you were trying to enlighten everyone . . .But your middle para; what are you trying to say? Is this part of the enlightenment for the reader?! Yes, we no doubt are the ancestral products of past generations and migrants, and the current migrants are also trying to look after their own, by assuming that a better life in Europe exists. But what is your point? Whilst I am sure that this is not what you mean,it sounds as if you are trying to say that they have every right to eg my private property

No, no. Quite the opposite. Stand down. Your private property is quite safe from my lefty leanings. I am merely stating that yes, if we find illegal workers, send them back, if we find employers knowingly employing them, punish them. But let's not look down on anyone with scorn if all they are doing is trying to better their family's lot. They are not after your property, they are looking to make a living.