Buying property abroad

[Boroseagull]

Great story when I sold my place in Spain in 1997. You go to the council building and are ushered into an office where checks are made regarding any outstanding debts etc. There will be the seller and agent, buyer and bank agent and council representative to oversee it. Everything is discussed and then the council rep will 'make an excuse' and leave for five minutes, at which point brown envelopes cross the floor at high speed. On his return he will say "now, where were we?" and cheques for a fraction of the actual price cross the floor and he then signs it off as sold. No wonder Spain went downhill as the black market was huge.

Doesn't happen with property sales/purchases now, however the 'black market' still thrives in the labour market/builders merchants etc. and this skews the unemployment figures to a massive degree.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Not sure about Barca. But this is the case in Berlin.

https://www.thelocal.es/20161124/barcelona-fine-airbnb-homeaway

24 November 2016

'Barcelona hits Airbnb and HomeAway with massive fines

Barcelona city hall said on Thursday that it would fine home rental websites Airbnb and HomeAway €600,000 ($635,000) each for marketing lodgings that lacked permits to host tourists.
In a statement, it said it had initiated proceedings "that will result in €600,000 fines for each of them for the repeat offence of advertising tourist lodgings online" without authorisation.

In June, Barcelona announced that it would up the maximum fine imposed on home rental sites for promoting ‘illegal’ accommodation.

Under a 2012 regional law, any apartment rented to visitors in Catalonia must be logged in the province's Tourism Registry and have a permit.

In December last year, Barcelona authorities slapped Airbnb and its rival HomeAway with a fine of €30,000, then the maximum, for offering for rent homes which lacked the permit.

This maximum has now been increased to €600,000.

Barcelona, one of Europe's most popular destinations for short-term holidays, has been massively affected by the rise of home-sharing sites.

Their popularity has caused the private vacation rental market to surge and now home stays are more popular than hotels - and many local people are unhappy as a result.

They complain of rising real-estate prices as family accommodation is snapped up for business use, and late-night noise and partying in neighbourhoods favoured by tourists.'

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

Great story when I sold my place in Spain in 1997. You go to the council building and are ushered into an office where checks are made regarding any outstanding debts etc. There will be the seller and agent, buyer and bank agent and council representative to oversee it. Everything is discussed and then the council rep will 'make an excuse' and leave for five minutes, at which point brown envelopes cross the floor at high speed. On his return he will say "now, where were we?" and cheques for a fraction of the actual price cross the floor and he then signs it off as sold. No wonder Spain went downhill as the black market was huge.

You're taking a huge risk if you go down this route these days. We tell all our sellers our buyers will not agree to any black money.

But we still get asked by sellers. We were offered a fantastic property a few months ago where the seller wanted 250k. It was worth every penny but the seller also told us he wanted an escritura price of just 50k and 200k in cash.

We didn't touch it with a barge pole. In a few years time the buyer would probably have received a massive tax bill and a fine and the first people he would have complained to would have been us. Life's too short to get involved in that sort of nonsense.

 

[fosters headband]

Doesn't happen with property sales/purchases now, however the 'black market' still thrives in the labour market/builders merchants etc. and this skews the unemployment figures to a massive degree.

When did it stop, as I paid black money when I purchased my property and also received black money when I sold three years ago.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

https://www.thelocal.es/20161124/barcelona-fine-airbnb-homeaway

24 November 2016

'Barcelona hits Airbnb and HomeAway with massive fines

Barcelona city hall said on Thursday that it would fine home rental websites Airbnb and HomeAway €600,000 ($635,000) each for marketing lodgings that lacked permits to host tourists.
In a statement, it said it had initiated proceedings "that will result in €600,000 fines for each of them for the repeat offence of advertising tourist lodgings online" without authorisation.

In June, Barcelona announced that it would up the maximum fine imposed on home rental sites for promoting ‘illegal’ accommodation.

Under a 2012 regional law, any apartment rented to visitors in Catalonia must be logged in the province's Tourism Registry and have a permit.

In December last year, Barcelona authorities slapped Airbnb and its rival HomeAway with a fine of €30,000, then the maximum, for offering for rent homes which lacked the permit.

This maximum has now been increased to €600,000.

Barcelona, one of Europe's most popular destinations for short-term holidays, has been massively affected by the rise of home-sharing sites.

Their popularity has caused the private vacation rental market to surge and now home stays are more popular than hotels - and many local people are unhappy as a result.

They complain of rising real-estate prices as family accommodation is snapped up for business use, and late-night noise and partying in neighbourhoods favoured by tourists.'

Seems fair enough to me.

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

When did it stop, as I paid black money when I purchased my property and also received black money when I sold three years ago.

Varies from area to area. In Extremadura, it's only recently that they have clamped down, in the last year or two.

That said, it's always been illegal.

People who bought with lots of black money may well have a problem if they sell now with no black. They have to pay capital gains tax on the difference between selling price (correct, no black) and the purchase price ( the declared price, ignoring any black)

 

[Del Boy]

Has anyone on here bought in Portugal? It seems to be a bit more complicated than Spain!!?

 

[Brighton Mod]

Anyone done it? Giving some serious thought to buying a holiday home for the family somewhere warm and sunny but I'm a little bit trepedatious.

You hear horror stories of people losing their homes because the developer didn't have planning permission or because the property was 3 inches taller than its plans permitted, but is that common? Also a little nervous as to how easy it might be to sell should I ever need to - I understand foreign property markets move a little slower than over here.

Looking for somewhere within 3 hours of the UK with decent food and amenities for kids. Any recommendations?

How long do you intend to spend time in this property, do the matths between purchasing and renting as capital appreciation is not great abroard. Sometimes its cheaper in the short, medium and long term to rent, no deposit, no maintenance, no taxes, no capital tied up in a property you can't move on, no temptation to allow friends and family to use it rent free, no insurance, no worries and you can visit othe places in the world for your holidays without paying twice. I did the exercise for purchasing a few years ago and for me it didn't stack up. Place your ego and the need to please the family aside and look at it without emotion.

 

[happypig]

How long do you intend to spend time in this property, do the matths between purchasing and renting as capital appreciation is not great abroard. Sometimes its cheaper in the short, medium and long term to rent, no deposit, no maintenance, no taxes, no capital tied up in a property you can't move on, no temptation to allow friends and family to use it rent free, no insurance, no worries and you can visit othe places in the world for your holidays without paying twice. I did the exercise for purchasing a few years ago and for me it didn't stack up. Place your ego and the need to please the family aside and look at it without emotion.

That's the conclusion I've come to. Was toying with the idea of buying a place in Corfu or Crete to retire to but have decided that we will rent somewhere for a year and see how it goes first; the Greece you see on holiday in July is probably most unlike the Greece you see as a resident in January.

 

[nicko31]

Germany is fecking brilliant .....apparently.....

Low yields but good capital growth.

Some have been talking of a bubble. I can't see it, Berlin for example is still a fraction of London or Paris cost and there's a lot of demand from new arrivals and a strong economy

 

[French Seagull]

I have not heard of the same sort of problems buying in France that you get in Spain. We have often enjoyed holidays in France, we enjoy the warmer climate, food, less busy roads and many other aspects of the hoped for life in France (I know it will not be perfect!)

We have access to three airports, or have the option of driving back, the property market is slower, but it is amazing what you can get for your money - even with a poor Euro rate at the moment.

We can not speak from experience as we have only just purchased a property. It took a few months to go through, we found an English speaking agent and Notaire (solicitor) we hope to make a better life for ourselves and move.

If it doesn't work out we will have given it a go and will sell up and come back. Take a look if you wish http://www.domainedefrance.com/

I will have to change my name I guess from Plymouth Seagull!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I have not heard of the same sort of problems buying in France that you get in Spain. We have often enjoyed holidays in France, we enjoy the warmer climate, food, less busy roads and many other aspects of the hoped for life in France (I know it will not be perfect!)

We have access to three airports, or have the option of driving back, the property market is slower, but it is amazing what you can get for your money - even with a poor Euro rate at the moment.

We can not speak from experience as we have only just purchased a property. It took a few months to go through, we found an English speaking agent and Notaire (solicitor) we hope to make a better life for ourselves and move.

If it doesn't work out we will have given it a go and will sell up and come back. Take a look if you wish http://www.domainedefrance.com/

I will have to change my name I guess from Plymouth Seagull!

Good luck, hope it works out!

 

[neilbard]

Anyone done it? Giving some serious thought to buying a holiday home for the family somewhere warm and sunny but I'm a little bit trepedatious.

You hear horror stories of people losing their homes because the developer didn't have planning permission or because the property was 3 inches taller than its plans permitted, but is that common? Also a little nervous as to how easy it might be to sell should I ever need to - I understand foreign property markets move a little slower than over here.

Looking for somewhere within 3 hours of the UK with decent food and amenities for kids. Any recommendations?

How about this little gem.........

 

[sod1]

I've just purchased an apartment off plan, it's a very simple process. The construction company prepare a contract, make an appointment at the 'notary office ', arrange an official translator. The translator goes through the contract with you, you sign the contract and are given so many days to pay up. I sought advice from many friends here before I decided which company to deal with, they all suggested the same one

 

[French Seagull]

Good luck, hope it works out!

A risk, but it was a dream so it is time to give it a go.

Thanks for the good wishes I am sure I have a great deal to learn!

 

[The Birdman]

Have a place in Portugal 3/4 hour north of Lisbon on the silver coast which I bought with 2 x friends in 2007 just before the global crash. Was original bought as an investment and we were going to sell on when complete, but Portugal, like others took a good hit and of the original 54 villas on the development only just over half are occupied.
Although we rent out during the summer (July, August) we struggle to rent out the rest of the year. We have now linked up with a golfing charity that auctions weeks at a time as there are three top courses within 10 mins of our villa, which are Praia Del Rey, The Royal Obidos, and Bom Successo. That does give us a bit back for the mortgage, but we cannot sell at the moment because people are still not buying out there.

how much are the villas is it a good time to buy are the prices low.

 

[Chief Wiggum]

...

 

[Chief Wiggum]

Good luck with your move [MENTION=29832]Plymouth Seagull[/MENTION]

We have been in Dept 87 for 16 years now, full time. The kids have all grown up here, are now adults with duel nationality and each doing their own thing. It has been a huge success for us, but equally I have seen it become a living nightmare for others.

My one tip is to try and retain a foothold property in the UK. Selling up entirely is risky in that if it should all go tits up in France you may never be able to afford to buy back in the UK.

As you say, you won't know until you give it a go so follow your dreams.

The other point I would make is that in France the buyer pays any estate agency fees which are very high ( 5 to 15 % of the value of the property on average) and so huge savings can be made dealing with sellers direct. Look for the private ads on sites like greenacres.com (many English selling on here) or leboncoin (if you speak French) and then if you eventually decide to buy, engage an independent French/English speaking solicitor (notaire) to conduct the legalities. Buying in France is relatively safe in this regard as the whole process is strictly controlled.

 

[Mr Bridger]

how much are the villas is it a good time to buy are the prices low.

Yes it's a good time, Portugal has been in a slump for some time now but just gradually beginning to turn round. We bought a 3 bed villa with own pool for €252,000 in 2008. Not sure if we'd get for it now. Have seen similar villas on the site for €300k

 

[French Seagull]

Good luck with your move [MENTION=29832]Plymouth Seagull[/MENTION]

We have been in Dept 87 for 16 years now, full time. The kids have all grown up here, are now adults with duel nationality and each doing their own thing. It has been a huge success for us, but equally I have seen it become a living nightmare for others.

My one tip is to try and retain a foothold property in the UK. Selling up entirely is risky in that if it should all go tits up in France you may never be able to afford to buy back in the UK.

As you say, you won't know until you give it a go so follow your dreams.

The other point I would make is that in France the buyer pays any estate agency fees which are very high ( 5 to 15 % of the value of the property on average) and so huge savings can be made dealing with sellers direct. Look for the private ads on sites like greenacres.com (many English selling on here) or leboncoin (if you speak French) and then if you eventually decide to buy, engage an independent French/English speaking solicitor (notaire) to conduct the legalities. Buying in France is relatively safe in this regard as the whole process is strictly controlled.

We are going to be in 47 on the river Lot a week today, we are aware we have a great deal to learn, and will probably make several mistakes, if we don't do it now though, it may be too late!

Do take a look www.domainedefrance.com open to any advice

The French agents fees were 20,000!