Bus lanes

[The Large One]

Hands up all on here who think, when the greens are voted out of office eventually, the next ruling party will reverse all the green's changes they have made, ie cycle lanes this bus stop stuff etc, and restore the city to how it was?

Not a chance in hell!

No, because one, the others voted them through, two - it's a waste of council resources to replace the work where these projects were not funded by the council in the first place, and three, the government will additionally want its money back.

Aside from that, it ticks all the boxes.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You are, of course, correct - but, so we are clear, your original point about the money coming in in June 2011 was an attempt to beat up the Green Party about the Edward Street roadworks which in fact the main parties seem to back - if only by their silence!

You may not agree with them but in their time in office the Greens have actually got on and done a helluva lot
Seven Dials
Station approach/ Queens Road
Lewes Road
Vogue gyratory
Edward Street
Open Market/ London Road
Circus Street
Seafront arches west of Alfrescos
Even the plans for Valley Gardens and Palace Pier roundabout are....errr 'adventurous'!!

Now these may not be to everyone's taste but sat on their hands the Greens have not - and I would hope all of these will have LONG TERM benefits!

It's just that the Luddites can't get their heads round them yet!! 


Edit - I accept too that some of these MAY have been in the offing for a while!

I'm not aware my post criticised the Greens The quote from the council literature isn't particularly clear if the money was awarded in June 2011 or that is when it was applied for. I assumed the later and therefore the Greens can take the praise / criticism ( delete according to your political preference ).

 

[The Large One]

I'm not aware my post criticised the Greens The quote from the council literature isn't particularly clear if the money was awarded in June 2011 or that is when it was applied for. I assumed the later and therefore the Greens can take the praise / criticism ( delete according to your political preference ).

The previous Tory-led administration also - successfully - applied funding for the cycle / bus lane for Old Shoreham Road and Lewes Road through the government's Local Sustainable Transport Fund in 2009. The Better Bus Areas money was applied for in June 2011. It would have been worked on for several weeks, if not months before that. These things don't magic themselves up in just five weeks - especially as it would have had to take extensive consultation with Brighton & Hove Buses (the co-applicant) in order for this to succeed.

The point I'm making is that if the Tories had retained power or the lead in the council in 2011, there's a good chance their administration would have applied for this BBA funding too.

 

[brighton bluenose]

The previous Tory-led administration also - successfully - applied funding for the cycle / bus lane for Old Shoreham Road and Lewes Road through the government's Local Sustainable Transport Fund in 2009. The Better Bus Areas money was applied for in June 2011. It would have been worked on for several weeks, if not months before that. These things don't magic themselves up in just five weeks - especially as it would have had to take extensive consultation with Brighton & Hove Buses (the co-applicant) in order for this to succeed.

The point I'm making is that if the Tories had retained power or the lead in the council in 2011, there's a good chance their administration would have applied for this BBA funding too.

Exactly - and whilst many criticise the Greens for introducing allegedly unpopular bus lanes and cycle lanes these are being introduced across the UK - and Europe - by administrations of every hue!

 

[brighton bluenose]

I'm not aware my post criticised the Greens The quote from the council literature isn't particularly clear if the money was awarded in June 2011 or that is when it was applied for. I assumed the later and therefore the Greens can take the praise / criticism ( delete according to your political preference ).

Sorry - your post didn't criticise the Greens - I just got over-excited when told not to get precious about them!!

 

[albion534]

... And temporary, while the works are being done.

No sir


The new plans are for bike access to gyratery via upper lewes, you can get to upper lewes as normal still after completion

 

[Winker]

I really don't see the point of the Edward Street lanes. The western end always was a dual carriageway with plenty of room for buses and bicycles so there was never a problem. Once you get to the bingo hall though, the two lanes funnel in together to form a narrow single lane where every road user shuffles along together. That will not change unless the council are planning to bulldoze a row of houses and a school or two. So after months of disruption and shed loads of cash we have arrived at precisely nothing at all apart from a few dim council planners feeling good about themselves.

An even bigger waste of money though, was building Gatwick's second runway alongside the Old Shoreham Road in Hove - a vast expanse of tarmac in each direction to accommodate one bicycle every other day. Thank god this country is not facing austerity any time soon so these public works can carry on regardless.

 

[trueblue]

The real masterstroke of the old Shoreham Road cycle route was to put a wide lane on both sides of the road, leaving it very narrow for cars. Turning left at the bottom of the Upper Drive (a blind bend) it would be very easy to hit any vehicle waiting to turn right. Lorries really struggle. A single, wider, two way cycle path on the BHASVIC side would have allowed for a slightly wider road, carrying less risk of head on traffic collisions. Of course, that doesn't matter because all car drivers are *******s who must be eradicated so maybe these professional planners should also have considered that it would also have avoided cyclists crossing junctions every 30 or 40 yards with the inherent dangers that carries. And because of the inevitable queues that now form, when cars are turning right heading westbound, approaching cyclists are entirely hidden by the stacked up traffic. So at some point, a cyclist bombing down the inside at 20mph is going to go over someone's bonnet or end up embedded in their windscreen. It's genius.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Exactly - and whilst many criticise the Greens for introducing allegedly unpopular bus lanes and cycle lanes these are being introduced across the UK - and Europe - by administrations of every hue!

Liverpool has abandoned it's bus lanes, because there was too much pollution from congestion.

 

[mikeyjh]

Genuine question, and it's not intended to aggravate - For those of you who favour the car and it's priority over other forms of transport, what is the answer to Brighton's transport difficulties? Car use cannot just grow and grow right? Or wrong?

 

[yxee]

Because bus stops in laybys are car priority measures. These days, the fashion is for bus priority measures.

I wouldn't say it's as much "car priority" as "anything that is not a stopped bus priority".

Genuine question, and it's not intended to aggravate - For those of you who favour the car and it's priority over other forms of transport, what is the answer to Brighton's transport difficulties? Car use cannot just grow and grow right? Or wrong?

See above- car users are not seeking dominance of the roads, but it would be nice to see an end to the merciless removal of commuter lanes from trunk routes in favour of cycle paths that nobody uses. That's not seeking priority, that's seeking proportionality.

 

[Garage_Doors]

Genuine question, and it's not intended to aggravate - For those of you who favour the car and it's priority over other forms of transport, what is the answer to Brighton's transport difficulties? Car use cannot just grow and grow right? Or wrong?

Remove the bus and cycle lanes so there is more room.

 

[mikeyjh]

Remove the bus and cycle lanes so there is more room.

But doesn't that just mean less people using the buses and cycling and more using cars and therefore......

 

[mikeyjh]

I wouldn't say it's as much "car priority" as "anything that is not a stopped bus priority".



See above- car users are not seeking dominance of the roads, but it would be nice to see an end to the merciless removal of commuter lanes from trunk routes in favour of cycle paths that nobody uses. That's not seeking priority, that's seeking proportionality.

Shouldn't we be encouraging more people to use the buses and to cycle though? I cycle in from Shoreham (slight delayed my commute this morning!!) and is a bit of a nightmare, I certainly don't feel like I'm being prioritised....

 

[Garage_Doors]

But doesn't that just mean less people using the buses and cycling and more using cars and therefore......

Traffic was moving before they put the lanes in, just need to be able to co-exist without some having more priorities over others.

 

[Garage_Doors]

Shouldn't we be encouraging more people to use the buses and to cycle though? I cycle in from Shoreham (slight delayed my commute this morning!!) and is a bit of a nightmare, I certainly don't feel like I'm being prioritised....

You don't feel feel like you're being prioritised with all the cycle lanes and cycle priority traffic lights, are you serious

 

[yxee]

Shouldn't we be encouraging more people to use the buses and to cycle though? I cycle in from Shoreham (slight delayed my commute this morning!!) and is a bit of a nightmare, I certainly don't feel like I'm being prioritised....

The problem as I see it is that a bike route is a huge amount of infrastructure and something that we just don't have room for in certain parts of the town. The bike is great for a single person commuting reliably and cheaply, but it does not cater for school runs, commercial freight deliveries, or holiday traffic, all three of which are huge in the city.

I'm all for giving everyone as much room as they want, and if the city were demolished and rebuilt I think there are far better ways that everything could be arranged, but given what we currently have, if putting in a cycle lane means taking out a car lane, then I can't help thinking that it is a less than optimal use of the limited road space that we have.

Cyclists can cycle on roads, but cars can't go on cycle lanes, so the cycle lanes are essentially a luxury. What is not a luxury is the tourism industry, local commerce and education, because that's what brings in the jobs and ultimately the income for the city.

Road traffic may not be fashionable, but it is essential.

 

[ditchy]

Genuine question, and it's not intended to aggravate - For those of you who favour the car and it's priority over other forms of transport, what is the answer to Brighton's transport difficulties? Car use cannot just grow and grow right? Or wrong?

Time the bus lanes to peak periods ie 7am 10 am 4pm 7pm as they do in London . then let the cars use the bus lanes outside of those hours

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The real masterstroke of the old Shoreham Road cycle route was to put a wide lane on both sides of the road, leaving it very narrow for cars. Turning left at the bottom of the Upper Drive (a blind bend) it would be very easy to hit any vehicle waiting to turn right. Lorries really struggle. A single, wider, two way cycle path on the BHASVIC side would have allowed for a slightly wider road, carrying less risk of head on traffic collisions. Of course, that doesn't matter because all car drivers are *******s who must be eradicated so maybe these professional planners should also have considered that it would also have avoided cyclists crossing junctions every 30 or 40 yards with the inherent dangers that carries. And because of the inevitable queues that now form, when cars are turning right heading westbound, approaching cyclists are entirely hidden by the stacked up traffic. So at some point, a cyclist bombing down the inside at 20mph is going to go over someone's bonnet or end up embedded in their windscreen. It's genius.

Have to agree that the OSR scheme is one of the most bizarre bits of road engineering I've ever seen. It's dangerous for everyone. Cyclists are at risk on the east bound side. Traffic comes to a complete stand still when people wish to turn right when going west bound and the risk of collision when entering from the south side has gone up incredibly. Bus passengers actually have to cross the cycle lane to get on a bus !!!

Congestion is now so bad on that stretch of the road I avoid it in the mornings and use residential rats runs - I'm sure that isn't what the Tories intended when they planned it but it's a result of the poor engineering.

Genuine question, and it's not intended to aggravate - For those of you who favour the car and it's priority over other forms of transport, what is the answer to Brighton's transport difficulties? Car use cannot just grow and grow right? Or wrong?

I don't necessarily favour the car but a balance has to be struck. The idea seems to be to make things so bad for car drivers that they are forced out of their cars. I'd rather they improved the transport system for all modes of travel. For example, many of the traffic lights are badly phased - a proper review needs to be undertaken to try and get traffic moving rather than the constant stop start. Some changes have produced a stupid amount of congestion when the road worked perfectly well before - a prime example is the junction of Sackville and OSR going south. It always worked well having two lanes going south and then merging the other side. Now they have made the left hand lane left turn only the traffic backs up to Waitrose - nice bit of extra pollution for the people living in the area.

We have a great bus service and one I sometimes use for work ( I walk, drive or bus it ). I would use the bus every day but it is extremely expensive even with a yearly pass. I often park in Preston Drove and walk in and the little bit of petrol that costs me is far less than it would on the bus. So forcing down bus fares would encourage me to get out of my car and probably make the residents of Preston Drove happier.

When I walk it's frustrating the amount of clutter there is on already crowded pavements - communal bins, bike racks, unnecessary street signage, advertising boards etc - clear the pavements of crap and make walking more pleasant. What this doesn't mean is ripping up perfectly good pavements at huge cost and throwing away perfectly good paving slabs as they are doing in Edward Street.

What it feels like is that the council have a huge residual income they feel they have to spend and they spend it, with the help of government grants, on grand schemes that appear to favour cyclists who are the minority. A more balanced spend would be welcome - some roads are in such a state of disrepair that it seems the council have just abandoned them ( try driving north past St Peters Church, it's like a rollercoaster ride ), use some of the residual to improve the roads themselves, it would benefit drivers and cyclists alike.

Now I fully expect the usual suspects to claim I'm negative and Green bashing but I've not blamed the Greens directly for the current policies, it's all the parties fault.

 

[Insel affe]

Liverpool has abandoned it's bus lanes, because there was too much pollution from congestion.

This is what will happen in the future in Brighton and at what cost, the traffic along Lewes Road will not get better only worse as I can see and the people to suffer are people are people going to work, school runs and commercial vehicles. I drop the wife at the station at 7.20am then drive down to Lewes Road park up wait twenty minutes then take the daughter into before school club at 8 then jump back in the car and have to be in Lancing at 8.30 for work. On the way home I finish at 5.30 and have to pick the daughter up before 6pm then picj the wife up at 6.20pm from the station and then home to Hartington Road.... The traffic and is horrendous and I have only just started this and think I may have to find a new job due to the traffic... We have to do this to survive as we could not survive on one wage. I am starting to think the bus lanes and cycle lanes are hindering the flow of traffic not helping and you can not ignore the motorist and then slap 20mph speed limits up everywhere........... aaarrrrggghhh

Rant over