Bus Lanes in Liverpool

[Dick Head]

That's a pretty unfair picture. It does one car for one person. Many cars carry multiple passengers. It could show 15 cars at 4 people per car. Why not show 60 buses?

Was just going to say the same.
Lunch time I drove down Terminus Road to Brighton Station. After all that money spent forming that one way system the congestion was as bad, if not worse than before.
Dogma!!!

The Council's Lewes Rd. Post-Construction Monitoring Report says

The average occupancy rate of vehicles has not changed significantly as a result of the scheme, with the average number of people per car being 1.38 in the before surveys and 1.33 in the after surveys.

Being generous and saying 1.5/car that would still be 40 cars per 60 people.

 

[Garage_Doors]

That may or may not be the answer, it could just be:-

but we're never going to find out because, as is customary, everything stays the same.

You've got to admire Scouseland for saying 'we're going to trial something different and see what happens'.

It would be great if in January Brighton Council said 'no cars till Sept'.

I think fairer trial would be to like Liverpool scrap all bus lanes for two months, then ban all private cars for two month and then measure the results.
Then maybe, no bicycles for two month but we know that wont happen.

 

[The Large One]

I think fairer trial would be to like Liverpool scrap all bus lanes for two months, then ban all private cars for two month and then measure the results.
Then maybe, no bicycles for two month but we know that wont happen.

Why scrap bus lanes here?

Outside London, Brighton has by far the highest per capita bus usage in the in country. In short, bus lanes are needed.

Similarly, why introduce cars into city centre areas when they have been banned (during daytime) for over 15 years - or over 20 in the case of North Street?

 

[The Large One]

That may or may not be the answer, it could just be:-

but we're never going to find out because, as is customary, everything stays the same.

You've got to admire Scouseland for saying 'we're going to trial something different and see what happens'.

It would be great if in January Brighton Council said 'no cars till Sept'.

The city's Chamber of Commerce held a debate this week on this very subject. It was, by all accounts, a very lively debate.

For the most part, city centre traders in the debate preferred the idea of fewer cars, other companies (non-retail business in the centre) had a variety of view ranging from 'certain times of the year' to 'certain roads'. No-one (including sustainable transport groups - cyclists etc) wanted a blanket ban.

A GP who said that health was very important, and promoting safe cycling was a good idea was called heckled by the UKIP bloke. He said the the city was fed up with 'lycra-clad fascists' and strongly recommended building an underground car park under The Level.

Of all city centre traders, only Brighton Pier people appeared to favoured cars.

 

[8ace]

Was just going to say the same.
Lunch time I drove down Terminus Road to Brighton Station. After all that money spent forming that one way system the congestion was as bad, if not worse than before.
Dogma!!!

I go through there every day, the biggest problem is the same as it's always been - taxis.

 

[Stat Brother]

The city's Chamber of Commerce held a debate this week on this very subject. It was, by all accounts, a very lively debate.

For the most part, city centre traders in the debate preferred the idea of fewer cars, other companies (non-retail business in the centre) had a variety of view ranging from 'certain times of the year' to 'certain roads'. No-one (including sustainable transport groups - cyclists etc) wanted a blanket ban.

A GP who said that health was very important, and promoting safe cycling was a good idea was called heckled by the UKIP bloke. He said the the city was fed up with 'lycra-clad fascists' and strongly recommended building an underground car park under The Level.

Of all city centre traders, only Brighton Pier people appeared to favoured cars.

So basically round in a big finger pointing circle with not even a hint of resolution.

 

[Stat Brother]

I think fairer trial would be to like Liverpool scrap all bus lanes for two months, then ban all private cars for two month and then measure the results.
Then maybe, no bicycles for two month but we know that wont happen.

2 months isn't a viable time frame.

This sort of thing needs enough time to allow a new trial to bed in.

Plus you won't get an even sample unless you are proposing the same 2 months for the next 3 years.

 

[Dover]

A very interesting debate. For my two bobs worth, there are too many cars on the road, and I think that is due to two issues. Firstly, that the Brighton population has grown substantially in the last 10 years or so. And secondly no manufacture has produced a rubbish car for the last 20 years or so. Also adding to that, that the normal car is so much bigger than it's previous counterpart. Quite simply, there can be no more road building in the town, as there simply is not the space. And adding to that, I cannot wait for the reopening of the Vogue Gyratory, which seems to be a dogs breakfast.

I now cycle, or walk as a rule. Cycling mainly for work, and the bus is, as others have said is too expensive. Many times due to congestion, i have been able to walk a good halfway up Elm Grove, and be overtaken by the bus that was on London Road. Or likewise, given the time of day, I have walked up to the Pepper Pot, only to meet a bus that I encountered at St. James's Street, and that to me is not value for money.

 

[Carrot Cruncher]

Still waiting for your input on what to do with a Chicken carcass.

9 months on, did you ever get an answer...?

 

[Magicman]

Similarly, why introduce cars into city centre areas when they have been banned (during daytime) for over 15 years - or over 20 in the case of North Street?

Cars are not banned from North street . It is possible to enter North st from Windsor st or Portland st (coming from Church St) and turn left. You can also enter North st via New rd (shared surface ) and turn left into North st all in your private car without committing any road traffic violations.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

A very interesting debate. For my two bobs worth, there are too many cars on the road, and I think that is due to two issues. Firstly, that the Brighton population has grown substantially in the last 10 years or so. And secondly no manufacture has produced a rubbish car for the last 20 years or so. Also adding to that, that the normal car is so much bigger than it's previous counterpart. Quite simply, there can be no more road building in the town, as there simply is not the space. And adding to that, I cannot wait for the reopening of the Vogue Gyratory, which seems to be a dogs breakfast.

I now cycle, or walk as a rule. Cycling mainly for work, and the bus is, as others have said is too expensive. Many times due to congestion, i have been able to walk a good halfway up Elm Grove, and be overtaken by the bus that was on London Road. Or likewise, given the time of day, I have walked up to the Pepper Pot, only to meet a bus that I encountered at St. James's Street, and that to me is not value for money.

Busses are way too expensive in Brighton.

When we come to Brighton, and want to go into town, rather than leave the car at the mother in laws, we drive into town, and park up. It's cheaper than using the bus.

Madness

 

[Gwylan]

One thing that no-one has mentioned about the Liverpool proposal is that on the routes they're doing away with bus lanes is that they're stopping on-street parking. This is because the consultants found the main reason for bus delays was parked cars not moving ones. I'm not sure that would wholly apply in Brighton. It will be interesting to see what will happen in Liverpool - banning parking is one thing, enforcing it is another. Anyone who travels along Lewes Rd will see many cars ignoring parking restrictions, if Liverpool drivers did the same, there may be no improvement

 

[Hillian1]

9 months on, did you ever get an answer...?

I can't remember starting this thread, let alone asking TLO for advice on what to do with a Chicken Carcass.

So, possibly is the answer, maybe.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Nottingham on the A52 has a decent bus lane (mind you its a three lane road) runs for about three miles and really moves buses along.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

One thing that no-one has mentioned about the Liverpool proposal is that on the routes they're doing away with bus lanes is that they're stopping on-street parking. This is because the consultants found the main reason for bus delays was parked cars not moving ones. I'm not sure that would wholly apply in Brighton. It will be interesting to see what will happen in Liverpool - banning parking is one thing, enforcing it is another. Anyone who travels along Lewes Rd will see many cars ignoring parking restrictions, if Liverpool drivers did the same, there may be no improvement

No - they are going to enforce parking restrictions where they exist rigorously - that is not "stopping" on street parking

 

[ofco8]

The Council's Lewes Rd. Post-Construction Monitoring Report says



Being generous and saying 1.5/car that would still be 40 cars per 60 people.

Yes and the Council say the majority of people want parking management in their areas when that is not true. People only ask for this when the adjacent area has parking restrictions and their areas are over run. As I always say, before long every road in the city will have parking meters. They stretch halfway to the boundary already.

 

[The Large One]

So basically round in a big finger pointing circle with not even a hint of resolution.

Nope. Not at all.

It was an open forum, debating a notion, not a decision-making seminar. They have these things on a regular basis, debating a give topic each time.

 

[The Large One]

Cars are not banned from North street . It is possible to enter North st from Windsor st or Portland st (coming from Church St) and turn left. You can also enter North st via New rd (shared surface ) and turn left into North st all in your private car without committing any road traffic violations.

Yes, true.

My point - which I didn't make particularly well - was you shouldn't be able to use North Street as a through road from top to bottom.

 

[Gwylan]

No - they are going to enforce parking restrictions where they exist rigorously - that is not "stopping" on street parking

That's not what the Liverpool Echo says "The council said it was looking at other measures to help improve the experience of people using the roads, including Red Routes – where there is no stopping at any time". Although your point is the one I was making, restrictions are meaningless if they're not enforced.

It was also interesting to read in that Echo report that on six of the bus routes, journey times for both buses and cars took longer after the lanes were scrapped - can't really see who benefits there

 

[The Spanish]

A very interesting debate. For my two bobs worth, there are too many cars on the road, and I think that is due to two issues. Firstly, that the Brighton population has grown substantially in the last 10 years or so. And secondly no manufacture has produced a rubbish car for the last 20 years or so. Also adding to that, that the normal car is so much bigger than it's previous counterpart. Quite simply, there can be no more road building in the town, as there simply is not the space. And adding to that, I cannot wait for the reopening of the Vogue Gyratory, which seems to be a dogs breakfast.

I now cycle, or walk as a rule. Cycling mainly for work, and the bus is, as others have said is too expensive. Many times due to congestion, i have been able to walk a good halfway up Elm Grove, and be overtaken by the bus that was on London Road. Or likewise, given the time of day, I have walked up to the Pepper Pot, only to meet a bus that I encountered at St. James's Street, and that to me is not value for money.

What do you say to these buses that you meet up the pepper pot?